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Let's Scientifically Nitpick the Movies

Argus Skyhawk

Commodore
Commodore
Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan

Chekov's ship is searching for a completely lifeless planet, and has so far had no success. They must not have been searching very long. Even the most optimistic assumptions about how common life is in the cosmos would probably assume there are lots of lifeless worlds out there.

The larvae enter Chekov's brain by entering his ear. This is rather impractical since the ear is separated from the brain by a layer of bone. If the larvae can eat right through bone, it would still leave Chekov deaf on one side unless the creature took a roundabout path around the middle ear and inner ear, which seems unlikely. If the critter can eat through so much bone anyway, there seems no need to enter the ear at all; it could just burrow right through the forehead (although I'm glad the movie didn't show that).

Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country

So at the beginning of the movie, how close was the Excelsior to the Klingon home world? Unless it was in the same solar system I'm sure the material from the Praxis explosion would have dispersed too much to have hit the Excelsior so hard. I would also expect the shock wave to fan out in three dimensions rather than two. Additionally, although I understand that it was supposed to be a subspace shock wave, which supposedly explains why the wave did not take years to reach the Excelsior (and why it can propagate through a vacuum), it sure did not look like it was moving faster than light.

Feel free to add your own.
 
Chekov's ship is searching for a completely lifeless planet, and has so far had no success. They must not have been searching very long. Even the most optimistic assumptions about how common life is in the cosmos would probably assume there are lots of lifeless worlds out there.

They needed to find a lifeless planet with the proper distance to the sun and preferrably in an uninhabited system. That's not what they said on screen but it's just common sense. You can't just nuke some life less moon and hope that the life created there will survive. The right conditions for life must have been there to begin with. Genesis was just terraforming. The book explains that they had to create an artificial sun in the Genesis Cave. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible.

And then you can't just create a planet spraying with life in a system where other life forms develop on another planet. You'd indirectly interfere with the evolution of that planet (what happens if in several million years the inhabitants of the Genesis planet invade the inhabitants of the naturally evolved planet?).
 
So at the beginning of the movie, how close was the Excelsior to the Klingon home world? Unless it was in the same solar system I'm sure the material from the Praxis explosion would have dispersed too much to have hit the Excelsior so hard. I would also expect the shock wave to fan out in three dimensions rather than two. Additionally, although I understand that it was supposed to be a subspace shock wave, which supposedly explains why the wave did not take years to reach the Excelsior (and why it can propagate through a vacuum), it sure did not look like it was moving faster than light.

Very, very little of what we're shown onscreen in Trek space shots can be taken as a literal representation of what's happening. The ships are too brightly lit for deep space, they're too close together (sometimes mere ship lengths apart when onscreen dialogue explicitly puts them thousands of kilometers apart), they're moving too slowly, energy beams are visible, explosions have a degree of flame and turbulence that would be impossible in vacuum (and look like low-energy liquid-fuel explosions rather than any kind of genuinely powerful explosion, a failing of virtually all screen explosions), the starscapes are wrong (after "Dark Frontier," Voyager should've been close enough to the galactic core that it would've filled half the sky), etc. Most any visual information has to be taken as merely a symbolic representation of something that, if depicted realistically, would be impossible for the eye to follow or recognize.

But yes, TUC gets major demerits for introducing the "flat glowy shock wave in space" as a sci-fi trope which subsequently caught on widely. It's wrong on so many levels -- there are no shock waves in vacuum, since there's no medium to propagate a shock, and if there were, they'd be spherical. Even granting that what we're seeing is a fanciful interpretation rather than a literal visual representation, this is a particularly fanciful and silly visual.


They needed to find a lifeless planet with the proper distance to the sun and preferrably in an uninhabited system. That's not what they said on screen but it's just common sense. You can't just nuke some life less moon and hope that the life created there will survive. The right conditions for life must have been there to begin with. Genesis was just terraforming. The book explains that they had to create an artificial sun in the Genesis Cave. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible.

Sounds good in theory, but that doesn't explain how they could create a whole planet out of a hydrogen emission nebula, even one that's about a million times denser than a real nebula would be. The nebula couldn't possibly be at a habitable distance from the Regula star, and it's absurd that a device programmed merely to reformat an existing planet's surface could spontaneously manufacture an entire star system from space gas. There's a ton that can be nitpicked in the movies, but Genesis goes beyond bad science; it's more like a magic spell.
 
Star Trek in general.......

1.) The concept of time as morning, afternoon and evening. DS9 annoyed me with this. In reality, a place like this would be open 24 hours a day, a truck stop in space, as it were. DS9 had a clock, and that Quark's Bar closed after a certain hour, or that Quark did his nefarious dealings usually in the middle of the night.

2.) A ship like the Enterprise would need at least three shift changes. All the senior staff on the bridge working at the same time is not practical. One commanding officer must be on duty at all times, which would require at least three people to run the operations of the ship 24 hours per day. Picard, Riker, Worf, and LaForge all working at the same time would not work in real life. Also again, there is no "night and day" in space. On all the shows, there was a sense of time like it is on a Planet, where all the characters wake up early, yawn and stretch, drink Klingon coffee, work all day, and then everyone is in 10 Forward listening to some boring performance in the evening, then bedtime by 11.

3.) There would be no explosions or sound in the vaccum of space. Khan (a genetically engineered man who once owned an island with a midget and sold fine Corinthian leather) once said that revenge, like space is a dish well served cold. Well, space is not hot or cold.

4.) Being on the same plane. For example, when the Enterprise is nose to nose with a Romulan warbird, or in a battle when all the ships are more or less on the same level.
What about a scene where a ship races up and shoots another ship from below? Never seen that in any show.

5.) One race of people who speak one language.

6.) It's space that is moving, not the ship. At least Mr. Scott knew that back when he looked like Simon Pegg.

7.) From the movie First Contact: Why didn't they just used shotguns to kill the Borg (since it showed it worked) instead of phaser rifles, which failed miserably. Could send in a huge army of Klingons, Humans and others with 12 guages and did away with the Borg in no time flat.

I read somewhere about what is theoretically possible scientifically from Star Trek, and in reality a lot of things were thought to be possible. The one thing I remember that would be entirely impossible is the transporter.
 
The planet Chekov, Terrell and their merry men were searching for in ST2 was not supposed to be lifeless. It was supposed to be a lifeless Class M planet! That is, they expected to find free oxygen down there, just like they did on Khan's hellhole. Now, the combination of free oxygen and lack of life (all the way down to whatever lichen they thought they saw in their sensors) must be one of the rarest things in the universe...

...Save, of course, for all those Class M planets that originally sported life, but later met with some sort of a disaster.

Burrowing into the ear sounds like a good way to start: the critter is protected from the elements, which on its planet are on the harsh side (even before the disaster, as stated at the end of "Space Seed"), and can then take its time munching through the inner structure of its victim.

The ST6 shockwave would make sense in more ways than one if we said "Subspace!". This would e.g. explain why it propagated out in a single plane - apparently so completely and precisely that the Klingon homeworld, supposedly in the same star system, didn't get hurt at all. Ordinary space doesn't have "layers" or "limiters" that would force blast waves into such shapes. Subspace may well have those. Heck, the Excelsior appeared to move on the same plane, in the same orientation, probably because that's the best way to ride the local subspace. (She may have been on a different "layer", though; no doubt the wavefront spread out at distance, perhaps becoming a wall of parallel wavefrontlets lightyears high even when each wavefrontlet was only a couple of hundred meters high.)

The FTL subspace wave would probably bleed energy into realspace as it went along - and that energy wouldn't travel FTL any more. One of those ripples could have been what hit Sulu's ship.

Sounds good in theory, but that doesn't explain how they could create a whole planet out of a hydrogen emission nebula, even one that's about a million times denser than a real nebula would be. The nebula couldn't possibly be at a habitable distance from the Regula star, and it's absurd that a device programmed merely to reformat an existing planet's surface could spontaneously manufacture an entire star system from space gas.

But nothing in the movie necessitates the Genesis planet being born out of nebula gases. It could be the transformation of the Regula I asteroid that we're seeing instead - after all, that's what the Genesis device was programmed to do, and the Marcuses stated that there was no room for program modifications after that.

And the nebula was within impulse range of the star, no two ways about that. Doesn't mean it would have stayed there for long, of course. We could be speaking of a timescale of mere centuries, or decades even, for a cloud that either was born in the inner star system and was thinning out, or was moving towards the star to soon be consumed.

DS9 had a clock, and that Quark's Bar closed after a certain hour, or that Quark did his nefarious dealings usually in the middle of the night.

Quark had made good business while the station was hanging on Bajoran orbit, where it had every excuse to follow the Bajoran diurnal rhythm. Why change that which works?

It's not as if the station was really a particularly busy place at any point. Sure, there were rush hours when dialogue would refer to ships arriving and departing. But most of the time, nothing of that sort was shown or told.

A ship like the Enterprise would need at least three shift changes. All the senior staff on the bridge working at the same time is not practical.

And we see exactly this happening. And of course, all the senior staff would be on the bridge whenever something interesting happened, or was supposed to start happening soon.

There would be no explosions or sound in the vaccum of space.

And no warp drive, and no Klingons, and little or no adventure...

Well, space is not hot or cold.

Sure it is. It's a gas, albeit a thin one, and the temperature of a gas is well defined. In the thinner parts, it's 2.7 K, which certainly qualifies as cold. Close to Earth, where there still is a lot of gas to go by, you can get thousands of K in places.

And if you move a physical thermometer to a spatial location, the Sun heats it to about 400 K if you are at the same distance from the Sun as Earth is; that's what the temperature of space would be there, too, if we were talking about equilibria. But we aren't, so the density of gas complicates the issue.

For example, when the Enterprise is nose to nose with a Romulan warbird, or in a battle when all the ships are more or less on the same level.

Well, they have to pick one orientation, out of the infinite number of possibilities. Why not pick the one that makes sense? It's only polite to face the opponent the same side up.

One race of people who speak one language.

The only time we can be sure we're seeing this is VOY "Basics", where our heroes have lost their Universal Translators, and one "race" or tribe of people indeed speaks one language - and consists of less than a hundred people. Makes perfect sense.

Other cultures may well have a spectrum of languages, but the UT would render the issue completely moot. Picard probably speaks French all the time, Bashir speaks Farsi, Keiko speaks Japanese, and so forth. It just gets translated to the lingua franca of Starfleet, just like it should. Klingons may well have the same sort of diversity, nullified by their UT.

Although it's equally possible that a single lingua franca will eventually kill all other languages on a planet or within a star empire. Certainly this should have happened on Bajor, which has more history than the other known humanlike cultures combined, all of it consisting of sitting together on the homeworld.

Why didn't they just used shotguns to kill the Borg (since it showed it worked)

Because you can't modulate a shotgun. Any weapon is only good for killing two or at most three Borg; after that, you have to modulate. Phasers can do that. Tommy-guns cannot.

I read somewhere about what is theoretically possible scientifically from Star Trek, and in reality a lot of things were thought to be possible. The one thing I remember that would be entirely impossible is the transporter.

It's just guesswork, though. All "predictive" science tends to be. Trek already hinges on the idea that there have been "breakthroughs", discovery of subspace, discovery of phased space, whatever. Those would completely nullify today's laws of physics, certainly including such trivialities as the Pauli rule or the Heisenberg principle.

Trek is full of implausibilities; less so of impossibilities. Today's world is already pretty implausible, but demonstrably not impossible.

Timo Saloniemi
 
2.) A ship like the Enterprise would need at least three shift changes. All the senior staff on the bridge working at the same time is not practical. One commanding officer must be on duty at all times, which would require at least three people to run the operations of the ship 24 hours per day. Picard, Riker, Worf, and LaForge all working at the same time would not work in real life. Also again, there is no "night and day" in space.

The concept of a night shift was acknowledged in "Data's Day" and in several VGR episodes.

But this is a logistical objection, not a scientific one, and I don't see what it has to do with the movies.


3.) There would be no explosions or sound in the vaccum of space.

There would be explosions, they just wouldn't look like the roiling fireballs that Hollywood uses to depict all explosions.

And there wouldn't be audible sounds in space, but then, there's not a symphony orchestra sitting in the back of the bridge playing dramatic music. I just treat the sound effects as an embellishment akin to incidental music.


Khan (a genetically engineered man who once owned an island with a midget and sold fine Corinthian leather) once said that revenge, like space is a dish well served cold. Well, space is not hot or cold.

He was speaking metaphorically. The fact that he called revenge a dish was the first clue.


What about a scene where a ship races up and shoots another ship from below? Never seen that in any show.

We kinda saw it in TWOK, although first the E came up to the Reliant's level and then it fired.
 
Very, very little of what we're shown onscreen in Trek space shots can be taken as a literal representation of what's happening. The ships are too brightly lit for deep space, they're too close together (sometimes mere ship lengths apart when onscreen dialogue explicitly puts them thousands of kilometers apart), they're moving too slowly, energy beams are visible, explosions have a degree of flame and turbulence that would be impossible in vacuum (and look like low-energy liquid-fuel explosions rather than any kind of genuinely powerful explosion, a failing of virtually all screen explosions), the starscapes are wrong (after "Dark Frontier," Voyager should've been close enough to the galactic core that it would've filled half the sky), etc.

I dunno about you, Christopher, but I think that would have been pretty cool to look at. Shame it wasn't realized.

I think more realistic effects of pho-torp explosions would look cool too--I still think there would be a very brief flash of light (mainly from the very outer layers of the casing), but the visible effects would largely be the heating of the hull of the starship.

Realistic shadows on starships would ordinarily look pretty neat, although I concede that the virtual blackness in deep space would be boring. Maybe warp fields have enough frontage to lens enough light in from many sources to illuminate the ship. Who knows? -_-

My main "scientific" beefs are with TVH. There is a lot of stupid stuff happening in this otherwise excellent film.

1)Spock's contention that fission power is unsafe. Yeah, nothing's safer than parking a bottle full of antimatter in a populated area. In the very unlikely event that the "Enterprise" (Ranger) reactor goes up at Alameda, no person in SF is gonna immediately die. If the Bounty suffers a fuel storage problem, everyone in SF is gonna immediately die. Hell, every human on the West Coast might be ionized particles accelerated to escape velocity, for all I know.

2)Going clockwise around the sun goes back in time. Counterclockwise goes forward. Or the other way around. I assume there was something else to this, but still. :p

3)The whale-loving aliens' communications method/attack severely damages the biosphere of planet Earth, blocking sunlight that all life forms, including marine ones, ultimately rely on for sustenance.
 
Khan (a genetically engineered man who once owned an island with a midget and sold fine Corinthian leather) once said that revenge, like space is a dish well served cold. Well, space is not hot or cold.

He was speaking metaphorically. The fact that he called revenge a dish was the first clue.

Now I'm dragging the thread even further from Science, but I just want to add that he was actually quoting Shakespeare.

Doug
 
Khan (a genetically engineered man who once owned an island with a midget and sold fine Corinthian leather) once said that revenge, like space is a dish well served cold. Well, space is not hot or cold.
Kidsthesedays.jpg
 
Now I'm dragging the thread even further from Science, but I just want to add that he was actually quoting Shakespeare.

No, he wasn't. "Revenge is a dish best served cold" is a saying whose earliest confirmed appearance in literature was in the novel Mathilde, written in 1841 by Marie Joseph Eugène Sue (though it's often misattributed to Les Liaisons Dangereuses, a 1782 novel by Pierre Choderlos de Laclos). The exact phrasing Khan used is actually from Mario Puzo's The Godfather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge#History_of_revenge

General Chang was the one who quoted Shakespeare. Khan's quotations were mostly from Moby Dick.
 
2.) A ship like the Enterprise would need at least three shift changes. All the senior staff on the bridge working at the same time is not practical. One commanding officer must be on duty at all times, which would require at least three people to run the operations of the ship 24 hours per day. Picard, Riker, Worf, and LaForge all working at the same time would not work in real life. Also again, there is no "night and day" in space.

The concept of a night shift was acknowledged in "Data's Day" and in several VGR episodes.

But this is a logistical objection, not a scientific one, and I don't see what it has to do with the movies.

Well, if you want to go into probability/statisical science, I want to know why the vast majority of episode-worthy adventures and crises happen in the day shift and not the night shift! Judging from TNG and how they portray night shift (the bridge getting darkened to signify the change), then the day shift is the exciting shift :)

But for the real logistical objection and not the scientific one, just why is the bridge darkened at night anyway? Wouldn't that be bad for the eyes?

Okay, that's enough of a thread drift from me...
 
7.) From the movie First Contact: Why didn't they just used shotguns to kill the Borg (since it showed it worked) instead of phaser rifles, which failed miserably. Could send in a huge army of Klingons, Humans and others with 12 guages and did away with the Borg in no time flat.

You know what, you're right, let's go ahead and replicate a few shotties right n- oh, wait - the Borg have us locked out of control of most of our systems.
 
Star Trek in general.......

2.) A ship like the Enterprise would need at least three shift changes. All the senior staff on the bridge working at the same time is not practical. One commanding officer must be on duty at all times, which would require at least three people to run the operations of the ship 24 hours per day. Picard, Riker, Worf, and LaForge all working at the same time would not work in real life.

This was something that always made sense to me from a narrative standpoint, but still irked me logistically. How many episodes did we have where the Enterprise is just cruising along, heading towards it's next destination, and Picard, Riker and Troi are sitting around making small talk on the bridge? Sure, it makes sense to call the senior staff together when something is actually happening, but when it's not, the CO and XO really don't need to be sitting right next to each other twiddling their thumbs.
 
4.) Being on the same plane. For example, when the Enterprise is nose to nose with a Romulan warbird, or in a battle when all the ships are more or less on the same level.
What about a scene where a ship races up and shoots another ship from below? Never seen that in any show.

Aside from the examples mentioned (TUC, All Good Things...), here's another one from Caretaker.

caretaker_1253.jpg
 
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