Why, do you need an ugly, rotting compost to be able to appreciate a beautiful rose? Of course not.
Jan
Let's pray for Jaycee Dugard to get better and find happiness!
- Thread starter Jayson
- Start date
Jan
I don't have a problem with that if that's the 'price' of not having ugliness or evil in the world. I don't agree with the premise anyway. I don't need to know the bitterness of lemon to appreciate the sweetness of candy. An opposite is not necessary for the appreciation of something.
Sorry, if that's the best 'reason' anybody can come up with for there being evil in the world, I agree with a previous poster who basically said that god is no better than a thug.
Jan
This case has bothered me. I have a hard time dealing with these kind of sad stories you see everyday. I am somewhat emotionally fragile because I have been desentized to this stuff because of my OCD and depression. This case seems to be worse than even the normal awful stuff you you read about. Doesn't help that even though she is now a adult you keep seeing pics of her as a kid and it makes me really hate humanity, right about now.
Jason
But this woman is reasonably okay Jason. She has been conditioned by her experience for sure but she will probably have a long and interesting life from now on. You shouldn't dwell on it so much. Her kids were going to parties and seem fairly well-balanced too. The shame would be if prurient media attention actually does more harm than good to all of them. I hope they are protected properly.
That's true but I can't help but think about how her "true" life that she was supose to have was robbed from her. Then when you look at the pics and realize what that kid is about to go through it makes me want to cry. It's kind of like how I mentioned awhile back that I look at pics of myself as a kid and cry because I know the kid will grow to be me. I think I have a problem looking a pictures in general of people when you know awful things are going to happen to them or has happened to them. I would love to stop dwelling on it but that's not so easy when you have OCD. Dwelling on things and then some really nasty intrusive thoughts has sort of made me feel like the time I was before I was in a really bad place mentally. The time I couldn't control my OCD and was almost committed because I couldn't do much other than cry and almost go in fetal postion or have a nervous breakdown. I haven't felt this way in along time. There are times when I literally can't handle how infair the world is. I keep trying to figure out a meaning to it all in my mind and I analyize and analyzie, hoping to find some 'grand truth" but you never do.
Jason
You feel hatred for an entire species and planetary civilization because one incident involving a handful of people upset you? No offence, my friend, but isn't that a rather...dangerous...way of thinking? Talk about extreme reactions...
Anyway, I find it difficult to believe you "hate humanity" if a single person's suffering can have such a profound effect on you.
You feel hatred for an entire species and planetary civilization because one incident involving a handful of people upset you? No offence, my friend, but isn't that a rather...dangerous...way of thinking? Talk about extreme reactions...
Anyway, I find it difficult to believe you "hate humanity" if a single person's suffering can have such a profound effect on you.
Well there feelings I have. There not supose to be rational or logical. There was a time I hated myself so much I thought I was worse than Hitler. There was a time when my OCD was so bad that I actually wished I had been abused as kid or had some huge trama to explain why I felt so fucked up inside. I don't like having moral dilemnna's that I don't have the answers to or problems that I see as existential that I can't solve even though OCD means it's also partly due to whatever it is that causes OCD. I don't always feel like I am a good person because of my OCD and dperession. I sometimes see myself as a bad person with a conscious instead of a good person with flaws. In essence I am just not good at dealing with life. I'm to senstive or to sad or to angry about things. Everything gets to me and bugs me. Usually it's not so bad when the OCd isn't in full gear but when it goes into hyperdrive I can become a mess,emotionally.
Jason
I don't know if this will help or not. I hope it can, in some small way
If not, forgive my babbling!: I sympathise, my friend. I too have had times where I pretty much collapse under the weight of my emotional problems. I too am not a stable or well-balanced individual, and I suffer from serious depressive episodes. There are times when I am far too harsh on myself, as well. Ultimately, however, I never lost my sense of humour or my empathy and love for others. It is clear to me you possess at least the second of these.
Also, something of great comfort to me is the fact that, intellectually, I know no-one is truly to blame for my problems- not me, not anyone else. It is all a result of the way society and humanity in general function, which transcends any one being's responsibility. Our responsibility is in learning from what has come before, and altering it where neccessary, in order to construct a better world for our children. You mentioned child photos upthread. I too often look at photos of my young childhood with regret. I was such an insanely happy infant and toddler, always beaming, always excited, always eager. Why shouldn't I be? I was very intelligent, eager to learn, fascinated by pretty much everything. Before long, however, I had learned to conceal my emotions (partly for my own protection). I became very manipulative, though never malicious, until my big personality "reboot" at around age 11, which caused me further hassle. The problem was, other people, and society in general, were more and more of a disappointment the older I got. I was rarely treated very well, my friendship and loyalty were repaid with exploitation and hatred. I was always very good at "reading" people and I knew my so-called friends were truly nothing of the kind. I lost all faith in politics, in justice, in widely accepted views on pretty much any issue, because they were no good, and I could see they caused my people more harm than they helped fix. The place my people wanted to slot me into, their means of relating to me as an individual or as a representative of different "groups", I realized was not productive, for me or for them. And I was despised and ill-treated by many for rejecting it.
I've not yet recovered from the crushing disappointment (no-one should have to grow up to see his planetary civilization fall away from him, transformed like that from something of constant delight to something "meh") but then I am only 19 at present, so that's hardly an evaluation of my full life is it (hopefully)?
That said, my evaluation of humanity has led me to conclusions that will, I believe, not change, no matter how further life experience might refine them. I stand apart from my people in many ways. That is both a great gift and a great sorrow. The most important lesson I've learnt, though, is that people are at heart "good". They are usually kind, helpful, concerned. If you treat them that way, they will in the end come to treat you that way. Even those who know only hatred and fear and violence and treat others poorly can be aided in becoming something greater, something nobler. The problem is society encourages modes of thinking and behaviours at odds with this way of relating to one another. Speaking personally, the most important ethic I have is to love my people. All of them. Even those you must also demonstrate rage and disgust to. Because they are worth loving, and always have been. Sometimes- because my self-esteem, like yours, is not good- I forget to include myself in that, but thankfully, as I've gotten older more and more people have been there to remind me. Everyone has a story, their own struggles and background and experience. My view, in respect for the individual, is that if society and other people place such pressures on you that you can't cope, I'd advise simply learning to escape them (that is, in your thinking, not in estrangement from your society). The goal should always be to avoid causing harm, to yourself and to any others. Why be confined by other people's ways when you can see quite clearly how they are causing harm, to yourself and more generally?
If their ways cause you and others such suffering, then those ways are no good. Your people require exposure to new ways of viewing themselves, one another, and their world, for their good as well as yours. It is the struggle of each of us to integrate ourselves into the functional society while retaining enough detachment to evaluate that society and mend it where it is non-functional, or serves a self-defeating function. Never lose sight of the whole, but deal with life on your terms. Service to your people and service to yourself are two essential ideas I believe must go hand in hand. I do not believe a life is being fully lived if one or the other is neglected. I don't know if this will be of any comfort to you, but I would suggest the problem is not actually inherent in us, or anyone, but instead in the way our societies function. The assumptions, modes of behaviour and means of relating to one another that most people automatically utilize, as it's what they've been raised with, are ultimately damaging, to people like us and to society as a whole. The means of dealing with our difficulties, which result from the way our societies work, is to change those ways.
I work to ensure my future children are allowed to remain happy, to enjoy the life I feel I "should have" had to date. I want to be able to encourage in them a view of their civilization that does not disappoint. I aim to raise children worthy of my civilization, but also to help make my civilization worthy of them. So far, with the voluntary work I've done, the social groups I've joined, the relationships I've forged in many areas, I think I'm doing my bit. Thanks to my own experiences, and the non-conventional insight into our people which I have gained as a result, I can help shield my children from similar harm and help encourage a new means of relating to our people. So, my past- and current- distress and unhappiness may in fact be my own children's best shot at happiness. I am currently studying at Cambridge University, where I have had the privelege of discussing many of my unique views with prominent scholars, who can evaluate, refine or refute my ideas, and help me put them into practice in a way that truly serves our people (and me personally). That is the positive outcome of my experiences, and there is always a positive outcome as well as a negative one.
I understand how you must feel, Jayson, but what I've seen of you here leads me firmly to believe there is too much positive, too much inquisitive and intelligent and truthful and honest and courageous about you to justify any view that you are "not good at dealing with life".
Life is never easy. The humans are a people who have always struggled to build their lives. Don't think less of yourself because the struggle is particularly strong for you. Your unique experiences as part of your struggle might well serve others well in the long run.
As for not liking being unable to find the right answers, or solve those existential problems, have you ever come across this quote (a favourite of mine)?:
"If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search; it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it! Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing. What we perceive as God, is the by product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished, not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do! Or we turn to look at our shadow, and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose; which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty - and in all its flaws. And in so doing better understand the world around us."
I think you're doing a pretty good job! Just don't spend so much time looking at your shadow
I am trying to but it's hard because when I get like this I feel guilty if I am not suffering like other people in the world. Every once in awhile I will start to feel happy about something, then I remind myself of Jaycee or something else that is horrible and I feel shame. Then when I try to do something positve I end up feeling selfish because I feel like I am doing something nice just to make myself feel better, instead of doing some nice just to be nice. I feel like I am always waging a war with my brain and it knows just what to think to really fuck me up.
Jason
I don't know if this will help or not. I hope it can, in some small way
I sympathise, my friend. I too have had times where I pretty much collapse under the weight of my emotional problems. I too am not a stable or well-balanced individual, and I suffer from serious depressive episodes. There are times when I am far too harsh on myself, as well. Ultimately, however, I never lost my sense of humour or my empathy and love for others. It is clear to me you possess at least the second of these.
You mentioned child photos upthread. I too often look at photos of my young childhood with regret. I was such an insanely happy infant and toddler, always beaming, always excited, always eager. Why shouldn't I be? I was very intelligent, eager to learn, fascinated by pretty much everything. Before long, however, I had learned to conceal my emotions (partly for my own protection). I became very manipulative, though never malicious, until my big personality "reboot" at around age 11, which caused me further hassle. The problem was, other people, and society in general, were more and more of a disappointment the older I got. I was rarely treated very well, my friendship and loyalty were repaid with exploitation and hatred. I was always very good at "reading" people and I knew my so-called friends were truly nothing of the kind. I lost all faith in politics, in justice, in widely accepted views on pretty much any issue, because they were no good, and I could see they caused my people more harm than they helped fix. The place my people wanted to slot me into, their means of relating to me as an individual or as a representative of different "groups", I realized was not productive, for me or for them. And I was despised and ill-treated by many for rejecting it.
I've not yet recovered from the crushing disappointment (no-one should have to grow up to see his planetary civilization fall away from him, transformed like that from something of constant delight to something "meh") but then I am only 19 at present, so that's hardly an evaluation of my full life is it (hopefully)?
Everyone has a story, their own struggles and background and experience. My view, in respect for the individual, is that if society and other people place such pressures on you that you can't cope, I'd advise simply learning to escape them (that is, in your thinking, not in estrangement from your society). The goal should always be to avoid causing harm, to yourself and to any others. Why be confined by other people's ways when you can see quite clearly how they are causing harm, to yourself and more generally?
I don't know if this will be of any comfort to you, but I would suggest the problem is not actually inherent in us, or anyone, but instead in the way our societies function. The assumptions, modes of behaviour and means of relating to one another that most people automatically utilize, as it's what they've been raised with, are ultimately damaging, to people like us and to society as a whole. The means of dealing with our difficulties, which result from the way our societies work, is to change those ways.
Thanks to my own experiences, and the non-conventional insight into our people which I have gained as a result, I can help shield my children from similar harm and help encourage a new means of relating to our people. So, my past- and current- distress and unhappiness may in fact be my own children's best shot at happiness. I am currently studying at Cambridge University, where I have had the privelege of discussing many of my unique views with prominent scholars, who can evaluate, refine or refute my ideas, and help me put them into practice in a way that truly serves our people (and me personally). That is the positive outcome of my experiences, and there is always a positive outcome as well as a negative one.
I understand how you must feel, Jayson, but what I've seen of you here leads me firmly to believe there is too much positive, too much inquisitive and intelligent and truthful and honest and courageous about you to justify any view that you are "not good at dealing with life".
Life is never easy. The humans are a people who have always struggled to build their lives. Don't think less of yourself because the struggle is particularly strong for you. Your unique experiences as part of your struggle might well serve others well in the long run.
As for not liking being unable to find the right answers, or solve those existential problems, have you ever come across this quote (a favourite of mine)?:
"If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search; it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it! Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing. What we perceive as God, is the by product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished, not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do! Or we turn to look at our shadow, and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose; which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty - and in all its flaws. And in so doing better understand the world around us."
I think you're doing a pretty good job! Just don't spend so much time looking at your shadow
Thnak you for the kind words. Thanks to everyone. I got to admit I haven't really told anyone how I am feeling about this Jaycee Dugard case or my overall feelings. I am basically pretending to be happy around people. I think I might talk to my new case manager, soon at the mental health clinic I go to. I use to talk to my orginal case worker and I felt at ease with her, but she moved and the people who replaced her just didn't really make me feel all that comfortable so I would just say I am fine and get my prescription of Luvox.
I just hope Jaycee has a happy ending to her life and lives happiliy ever after. I don't know why but I feel like if she has a happy life then it's okay if I don't. That is how I feel when I see other people who are happy. It makes me realize that it doesn't matter if my life is worthless because things like love and happiness still exsit in the world.
Jason
Perhaps but in the grand scheme of things I understand I'm not important. I think I understand why Jaycee Dugard's story has had such a impact on me. I have done nothing with my life and I have many things about me I don't like. Even the good things I have done, I sometimes wonder if it's because I am a good person or if I am a selfish person who likes the feelings one gets from doing something nice.
I feel like Jaycee Dugard lived the life I deserve,not her. She was just inocent kid. If life was fair she would have never made her endure that and instead would have put someone in her place that did,such as me. I know that sounds fucked up but it makes sense if the world needs both good and evil. At least evil could happen to people who deserve it and since I find my own ethics lacking I just realize I proably do deserve it.
Jason
Similar threads
