Let's examine ED-209

[Trekker4747]

Referring to the original "Robocop" movie(s) here, we'll also ignore for the sake of discussion that the movie was supposed to be a "satire" or take on coldness or the give-a-fuckery of corporate America in the 80s.

So in the near future, er.... past, er... present... Whatever. Detroit is a crime-ridden hell-hole (Heh, science fiction) soon to be razed and rebuilt as "Delta City" should certain plans ever gel together and get off the ground. Part of the plan on the road to Delta City is to get crime under control in Detroit. Two executives from a defense contractor propose their ideas.

One idea is Robocop, the idea of mating a human mind with robotic technology to create a cyborg cop. The idea being to have the "best of both worlds" of a human cop (with the ability to think, reason and process, while having the durability and reflexes of a machine. By and large this idea fairs well through the course of the movie and future movies.

But the original proposed idea is the Enforcement Droid 209 (which suggests there were 208 other versions of these things either made or tested before settling on a final idea deemed to "work.")

ED-209 is a bipedal monstrous machine with intimidating looks and instead of arms it has two large high-powered, high-caliber machine weapons.

During the test they go with a "typical disarment and arrest scenario." An elected volunteer is given a gun, at first he points it at his boss and in this case ED-209 does nothing. Which is a first "Huh?" moment. As ED-209 does nothing which, really, if it was "good at it's job" it should have done something the moment it saw the gun.

The volunteer is told to point the gun at ED-209 and he does, this activates ED-209 who demands the volunteer drop the gun. (He does.) At this point ED-209 fails to recognize that the gun was dropped, gives more warnings and finally shoots the guy to death. We'll ignore the fact that ED-209 glitched in not noticing the gun was dropped.

What was the goal here? How effective can ED-209 be if it's incapable of arresting someone? Supposing he dropped the gun, ED-209 recognized it, then what? ED-209 has no means to detain the guy and take him in for booking. At "best" he can use intimidation to hold him there until a human police officer shows up but then that kind of defeats the purpose of replacing the human police force with something more efficient and controllable.

And while "Old Detroit" was depicted as being such a crime-ridden hellhole it seems ED-209 is only deigned to take care of a very specific kind of crime. Namely it, itself, having a gun pointed at it. Now, later in the movie it's guarding the OCP main headquarters and it does get on Robocop for parking in an un-authorized area but kind of by the same means. "Move the car or I'll blow you away."

Assuming civil rights and all are the same as they are today as they are in this version of Detroit, is parking your car in an un-authorized place really call for lethal force? How does ED-209 detain a suspect, bare witness to a crime and testify it in court?

ED-209 really just seemed like a mess and Dick Jones was, well, a Dick for thinking it'd have any merit whatsoever as being a "police officer."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ That's the joke. (There's a strong streak of black comedy running through the original Robocop.)

Now think about all the situations in the real world when police used excessive force. /thread

 

[Trekker4747]

That's the joke. (There's a strong streak of black comedy running through the original Robocop.)

Referring to the original "Robocop" movie(s) here, we'll also ignore for the sake of discussion that the movie was supposed to be a "satire" or take on coldness or the give-a-fuckery of corporate America in the 80s.

Now think about all the situations in the real world when police used excessive force. /thread

Yes that does happen. But not as a matter of policy or routine, as seemed to be the case with ED-209.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Yeah, the ED was supposed to be military hardware which cleared streets and battlefields presumably by killing everything. The demonstration showed it had no practical civilian use.

That's the joke. (There's a strong streak of black comedy running through the original Robocop.)

Yeah, it's kind of difficult to consider Robocop and separate out the satirical elements. I think the original cut of the movie had the ED shoot the yuppy for 45 solid seconds. And then the other yuppie calls for a doctor.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

One would hope ED-209 had other means of enforcement it could switch to, like a taser, or rubber bullets....maybe a net.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the ED was supposed to be military hardware which cleared streets and battlefields presumably by killing everything. The demonstration showed it had no practical civilian use.

It was the opposite according to Dick Jones's introduction of it.

Dick Jones: "We need a 24-hour-a-day police officer. A cop who doesn't need to eat or sleep. A cop with superior firepower and the reflexes to use it. Fellow executives it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you the future of law enforcement: ED-209. The Enforcement Droid, series 209 is a self-sufficient law enforcement robot. 209 is currently programed for urban pacification but that is only the beginning. After a successful tour of duty in Old Detroit we can expect 209 to become the hot military product for the next decade." [emphasis mine]

The model Dick presented to the executives in the board meeting (fully loaded with live ammunition!) was his idea for the urban, street-use, law-enforcement droid. Military applications was maybe his long-term end-game but right now he was looking to sell it for law enforcement in Detroit.

 

[MacLeod]

Overlooking some software bugs, the ED-209 did seem to have at least one minor (almost inconsequential ) flaw, the humble stiarcase. Or was it supposed to fly?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, it's kind of difficult to consider Robocop and separate out the satirical elements. I think the original cut of the movie had the ED shoot the yuppy for 45 solid seconds. And then the other yuppie calls for a doctor.

I did not know that!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yeah, the ED was supposed to be military hardware which cleared streets and battlefields presumably by killing everything. The demonstration showed it had no practical civilian use.

It was the opposite according to Dick Jones's introduction of it.

Dick Jones: "We need a 24-hour-a-day police officer. A cop who doesn't need to eat or sleep. A cop with superior firepower and the reflexes to use it. Fellow executives it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you the future of law enforcement: ED-209. The Enforcement Droid, series 209 is a self-sufficient law enforcement robot. 209 is currently programed for urban pacification but that is only the beginning. After a successful tour of duty in Old Detroit we can expect 209 to become the hot military product for the next decade." [emphasis mine]

The model Dick presented to the executives in the board meeting (fully loaded with live ammunition!) was his idea for the urban, street-use, law-enforcement droid. Military applications was maybe his long-term end-game but right now he was looking to sell it for law enforcement in Detroit.

And as "Dick" clearly demonstrated, he really didn't care if his own products even WORKED or not. All he cared about was selling them.

 

[Trekker4747]

And as "Dick" clearly demonstrated, he really didn't care if his own products even WORKED or not. All he cared about was selling them.

Which is kind of dumb. How do you sell your products if they're known to not work?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Because whoever you're selling them to, doesn't KNOW they don't work until the sale is already complete.

Dick is clearly a master of spin-doctoring. He could rival the Ferengi in being able to sell something that is really a piece of crap. And also, even if the buyer finds out the product doesn't work, OCP can make money selling replacement parts for precisely that reason! In fact, doesn't Dick say about ED-209, "Who cares if it worked or not"? He makes money on selling the droid, and guaranteed replacement parts for like 20 years after that. Given this, OCP really has no reason to care whether or not ED actually works as advertised.

Although, in the context of the film, I think we all know that the "real" reason the ED-209 was so clinically ineffective - in the original film, anyway (I haven't seen the remake so I don't know if ED is just as stupid there) - was 1) comic relief, and 2) because Paul Verhoeven wanted to show gratuitous gore, like he does in every other film he's associated with.

 

[MacLeod]

Well it seems as if DIck's aim was to sell it to the US military (amongest others) and what can happen once you've spent X billion on something you can get caught in the trap of spending Y billions on making it work right.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And as "Dick" clearly demonstrated, he really didn't care if his own products even WORKED or not. All he cared about was selling them.

That's a good point. And the fact that that subtext is present in the film overall is confirmed by the ludicrous (or is it prophetic?) 8.2 MPG rating of the 6000 SUX.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl8mQhxhE_Q[/yt]​

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think the point of ED-209 was not to do police work as such but to a) scare the shit out of criminals so they'll stay off the street and b) kill the ones too dumb to run away. It would rule the streets through fear and superior firepower.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

All I know is that I want it for my desk.

 

[Ethros]

Referring to the original "Robocop" movie(s) here, we'll also ignore for the sake of discussion that the movie was supposed to be a "satire" or take on coldness or the give-a-fuckery of corporate America in the 80s.

So in the near future, er.... past, er... present... Whatever. Detroit is a crime-ridden hell-hole (Heh, science fiction) soon to be razed and rebuilt as "Delta City" should certain plans ever gel together and get off the ground. Part of the plan on the road to Delta City is to get crime under control in Detroit. Two executives from a defense contractor propose their ideas.

One idea is Robocop, the idea of mating a human mind with robotic technology to create a cyborg cop. The idea being to have the "best of both worlds" of a human cop (with the ability to think, reason and process, while having the durability and reflexes of a machine. By and large this idea fairs well through the course of the movie and future movies.

But the original proposed idea is the Enforcement Droid 209 (which suggests there were 208 other versions of these things either made or tested before settling on a final idea deemed to "work.")

ED-209 is a bipedal monstrous machine with intimidating looks and instead of arms it has two large high-powered, high-caliber machine weapons.

During the test they go with a "typical disarment and arrest scenario." An elected volunteer is given a gun, at first he points it at his boss and in this case ED-209 does nothing. Which is a first "Huh?" moment. As ED-209 does nothing which, really, if it was "good at it's job" it should have done something the moment it saw the gun.

The volunteer is told to point the gun at ED-209 and he does, this activates ED-209 who demands the volunteer drop the gun. (He does.) At this point ED-209 fails to recognize that the gun was dropped, gives more warnings and finally shoots the guy to death. We'll ignore the fact that ED-209 glitched in not noticing the gun was dropped.

What was the goal here? How effective can ED-209 be if it's incapable of arresting someone? Supposing he dropped the gun, ED-209 recognized it, then what? ED-209 has no means to detain the guy and take him in for booking. At "best" he can use intimidation to hold him there until a human police officer shows up but then that kind of defeats the purpose of replacing the human police force with something more efficient and controllable.

And while "Old Detroit" was depicted as being such a crime-ridden hellhole it seems ED-209 is only deigned to take care of a very specific kind of crime. Namely it, itself, having a gun pointed at it. Now, later in the movie it's guarding the OCP main headquarters and it does get on Robocop for parking in an un-authorized area but kind of by the same means. "Move the car or I'll blow you away."

Assuming civil rights and all are the same as they are today as they are in this version of Detroit, is parking your car in an un-authorized place really call for lethal force? How does ED-209 detain a suspect, bare witness to a crime and testify it in court?

ED-209 really just seemed like a mess and Dick Jones was, well, a Dick for thinking it'd have any merit whatsoever as being a "police officer."

That's the joke. (There's a strong streak of black comedy running through the original Robocop.)

Now think about all the situations in the real world when police used excessive force. /thread

I'm not having a go at you personally, as I see this a lot on this board, but when you're the first person to reply to a brand new thread, why do some people having to use the quotes option to post? For the first reply it's fairly obvious what you're replying to...
I see it a lot, especially on a big post like that, and I feel like I'm unnecessarily endlessly scrolling down.


Anyway.. the directors cut of the movie does have ED-209 shooting at the poor fellow for a lot longer. And a lot bloodier too.
As a South Park fan it makes me laugh that the guys name was Kenny too

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm not having a go at you personally, as I see this a lot on this board, but when you're the first person to reply to a brand new thread, why do some people having to use the quotes option to post? For the first reply it's fairly obvious what you're replying to...
I see it a lot, especially on a big post like that, and I feel like I'm unnecessarily endlessly scrolling down.

Good point! I'll fix it!

 

[MacLeod]

And as "Dick" clearly demonstrated, he really didn't care if his own products even WORKED or not. All he cared about was selling them.

That's a good point. And the fact that that subtext is present in the film overall is confirmed by the ludicrous (or is it prophetic?) 8.2 MPG rating of the 6000 SUX.

​

I wouldn't buy that for a dollar. But to me the ad is basically saying the 6000 sucks.

 

[Christopher]

The whole point of ED-209 was to highlight the excesses of Dick Jones's mentality -- that even by the standards of a callous and violent society where life was cheap, Jones was especially brutal and heartless. It wasn't enough to just be tough on crime, he had to take it to the point of grotesque overkill.

And of course ED-209 was supposed to be a bad idea, a boondoggle that would fail so that the RoboCop prototype would be approved instead. It showed that Jones was not only brutal and heartless, but not particularly competent. He'd presumably gotten where he was through corporate politicking, backstabbing, and cheating rather than through engineering acumen. So his pet project was a terrible idea that couldn't possibly work, and his jealousy toward Bob Morton's more successful RoboCop idea drives much of the story. He's the Salieri of OCP.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

We live in a world where schoolchildren get tasered by cops, where children are killed by SWAT teams smashing into homes for reality TV, where people are shot in a theater over texting and throwing popcorn (by someone who happened to be an ex-cop) and so on. It takes 58 minutes on average to respond to 911 calls today in Detroit. ED-209 may be an exaggeration but sometimes I wonder.