Legion season 1 (new X-Men related tv show)

[Christopher]

Does Syd have Rogue's powers?

No. As we saw last week, her power is that when someone touches her, they switch bodies. At first I thought they switched minds, but considering the way they switched back, I think their bodies physically transpose (and bring their powers with them), and the reason nobody realized that the first time is because it happened during a confusing melee where it was hard to keep track of who was where.

I hadn't expected David and Lenny seemingly to know each other prior to the Clockworks Psychiatric Hospital. Makes me wonder about the circumstances of their admittance into the hospital and whether they were admitted individually or not.

Or were those memories even real? Remember, Ptonomy said that if you interact with someone in a relived memory, it changes the memory. Maybe the ghost of Lenny living in his brain is putting herself in his memories and rewriting them in the process. (Or himself? Apparently the character was written as a dirty old man and Aubrey Plaza refused to let them rewrite the lines for a woman. So it's unclear how the character prefers to be gendered. Maybe I should say "themself." Themselves?)

I also wonder if the Devil with Yellow Eyes exists entirely in David's head (but as a living creature) and somehow arrived there when David "heard" the stars.

I found it interesting that he couldn't even bring himself to say the word "star" or "astronomer" to the therapist. There's some kind of traumatic block there, I think.

I suspect he's a stepfather and not actually Charles.

This show is not set in the X-Men universe per se; it's taking the David Haller character and doing something distinct with him. So this version of David may not be the son of Charles Xavier at all -- just as the Marvel Cinematic Universe version of Star-Lord has been given a different father from the comics' version, and just as the movie version of Havok is Cyclops's older brother instead of younger, and so on.

There's definitely some mystery surrounding David's father in the show, so he will be an important character, but I think the producers want to avoid using Charles Xavier. So they'll probably come up with a different but similarly powerful character to be David's father.

By the way, it was weird that the receptionist at the hospital addressed David's sister as "Mrs. Haller." Haller is her birth name, her brother's surname, so it wouldn't be her married name.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Or were those memories even real? Remember, Ptonomy said that if you interact with someone in a relived memory, it changes the memory. Maybe the ghost of Lenny living in his brain is putting herself in his memories and rewriting them in the process. (Or himself? Apparently the character was written as a dirty old man and Aubrey Plaza refused to let them rewrite the lines for a woman. So it's unclear how the character prefers to be gendered. Maybe I should say "themself." Themselves?)

Ah, that's a great point, which goes well with the unreliable narrative that I described. The more I think about it, the more I believe what we saw was Lenny interacting with David's memories.

If so, what kind of time flow exists his brain regarding her interactions with David's memories. We saw Ptonomy, Melanie and David observe the vaping memory and froze it after younger David reacted to seeing the Devil with the Yellow Eyes.

This show is not set in the X-Men universe per se; it's taking the David Haller character and doing something distinct with him. So this version of David may not be the son of Charles Xavier at all -- just as the Marvel Cinematic Universe version of Star-Lord has been given a different father from the comics' version, and just as the movie version of Havok is Cyclops's older brother instead of younger, and so on.

There's definitely some mystery surrounding David's father in the show, so he will be an important character, but I think the producers want to avoid using Charles Xavier. So they'll probably come up with a different but similarly powerful character to be David's father.

Which is all well and good except Noah Hawley has already said we'll probably see Charles Xavier at some point:

That also applies to David’s comic book origins as the son of Professor Xavier. Echoing previous statements he made, Hawley confirmed, “I don’t think you can really tell this story without that element to it.” James McAvoy and Patrick Stewart portray Charles in the X-Men movies, and when asked by a fan if we’d see the Professor in Legion, Hawley responded, “I’d say you probably will.”

Sure, plans change but it's clear that Noah already has that familial connection in mind.

By the way, it was weird that the receptionist at the hospital addressed David's sister as "Mrs. Haller." Haller is her birth name, her brother's surname, so it wouldn't be her married name.

So? Plenty of married women don't change their last name. My mother didn't either time.

 

[Christopher]

So? Plenty of married women don't change their last name. My mother didn't either time.

But did they still use "Mrs." in that case? More to the point, would a receptionist who didn't know her personally just assume that she'd kept her maiden name?

 

[sojourner]

Why would the receptionist assume she was married in the first place?

 

[Set Harth]

James McAvoy and Patrick Stewart portray Charles in the X-Men movies, and when asked by a fan if we’d see the Professor in Legion, Hawley responded, “I’d say you probably will.”

Spoiler

Charles Xavier didn't know he had a son, so that can't be him reading the bedtime story.

Spoiler

I've seen an interesting theory that the memory of his being taken to the planetarium and hearing the stars was actually a visit to Cerebro.

(Also that is one fucked up bedtime story!)

 

[Captain Nebula]

Set, your Spoiler is a very interesting theory. Thanks!

 

[Commander Richard]

The show is so weird that all but the most dedicated will tune out.

 

[Set Harth]

Set, your Spoiler is a very interesting theory. Thanks!

I can't take credit for it, I read it on some review site or blog.

 

[kitik]

I hadn't expected David and Lenny seemingly to know each other prior to the Clockworks Psychiatric Hospital. Makes me wonder about the circumstances of their admittance into the hospital and whether they were admitted individually or not.

Yeah, so it seems to me that one possibility is

Spoiler: speculation about what Hawley has planned

that what we see and are told is true. Let's assume that these are 2 facts:
1. David knew Lenny before the hospital. That memory was real.
2. Syd killed Lenny at the hospital.
Now with this show you're obviously assuming or guessing when trying to figure out what's real, what's a fact and what's not. But that memory didn't feel like something completely made up, and Syd certainly seems to think she killed Lenny at the hospital. But as mentioned, it makes very little sense for Lenny and David to wind up in the same mental hospital.

So what if Lenny was already dead before David went to the hospital (either killed accidentally by David or drugs or whatever), and the Lenny at the hospital was 100% in David's head. And then when Syd took over David's body and powers, she got all those voices ganging up on her, and Lenny was the loudest inside that new brain of hers, so she expelled a physical manifestation of Lenny right into a wall (accidentally), to try to quiet the voices.

And after saying that, I've seen very little reference or speculation online about that one sentence Syd said to David in episode 1 (right before she told him to slip out of the chair and into the water). I believe her exact words were something along the lines of: "this is your memory of the day you call the hospital". The way that was phrased felt important. And I think it means something about how we're seeing things through David's perspective on the show. (Even the scene in Episode 2 with his sister at the hospital looking for him was pretty much seen from his perspective.)

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Spoiler

I've seen an interesting theory that the memory of his being taken to the planetarium and hearing the stars was actually a visit to Cerebro.

(Also that is one fucked up bedtime story!)

That is an interesting theory. While I prefer my out-in-left-field theory the Devil with the Yellow Eyes and the stars, I admit this one is more logical.

Yeah, so it seems to me that one possibility is

Spoiler: speculation about what Hawley has planned

that what we see and are told is true. Let's assume that these are 2 facts:
1. David knew Lenny before the hospital. That memory was real.
2. Syd killed Lenny at the hospital.
Now with this show you're obviously assuming or guessing when trying to figure out what's real, what's a fact and what's not. But that memory didn't feel like something completely made up, and Syd certainly seems to think she killed Lenny at the hospital. But as mentioned, it makes very little sense for Lenny and David to wind up in the same mental hospital.

So what if Lenny was already dead before David went to the hospital (either killed accidentally by David or drugs or whatever), and the Lenny at the hospital was 100% in David's head. And then when Syd took over David's body and powers, she got all those voices ganging up on her, and Lenny was the loudest inside that new brain of hers, so she expelled a physical manifestation of Lenny right into a wall (accidentally), to try to quiet the voices.

And after saying that, I've seen very little reference or speculation online about that one sentence Syd said to David in episode 1 (right before she told him to slip out of the chair and into the water). I believe her exact words were something along the lines of: "this is your memory of the day you call the hospital". The way that was phrased felt important. And I think it means something about how we're seeing things through David's perspective on the show. (Even the scene in Episode 2 with his sister at the hospital looking for him was pretty much seen from his perspective.)

Hm, I hadn't thought of it that way but that does makes some sense based on what little we know and based on certain assumptions. Either way, what exactly is going on in David's head is not clear and that may have carried over to Syd when they switched bodies.

 

[Beagleman]

Yeah, so it seems to me that one possibility is

Spoiler: speculation about what Hawley has planned

that what we see and are told is true. Let's assume that these are 2 facts:
1. David knew Lenny before the hospital. That memory was real.
2. Syd killed Lenny at the hospital.
Now with this show you're obviously assuming or guessing when trying to figure out what's real, what's a fact and what's not. But that memory didn't feel like something completely made up, and Syd certainly seems to think she killed Lenny at the hospital. But as mentioned, it makes very little sense for Lenny and David to wind up in the same mental hospital.

So what if Lenny was already dead before David went to the hospital (either killed accidentally by David or drugs or whatever), and the Lenny at the hospital was 100% in David's head. And then when Syd took over David's body and powers, she got all those voices ganging up on her, and Lenny was the loudest inside that new brain of hers, so she expelled a physical manifestation of Lenny right into a wall (accidentally), to try to quiet the voices.

Seems a bit overly complicated to me. (...which of course means nothing in the context of this show. )

 

[Set Harth]

That is an interesting theory.

I just saw a Legion TV ad earlier tonight, and I thought I saw a

Spoiler

Cerebro helmet!

Or something that looked like it...

 

[Set Harth]

A few things:

Spoiler

1. A frog is an amphibian, not a reptile. Jeez!

2. Why did Melanie say the kitchen memory proved David was more than a telepath, given that he had already teleported an MRI machine outside in the previous episode, and she should have known about the other telekinetic stuff he had done ( including what Syd did in his body )? Kind of ridiculous...

3. That looked like a cheap costume version of a Cerebro helmet in the Halloween flashback scene.

4. "Even her secrets have secrets." Ripped off from the Avengers dialogue about Nick Fury!

 

[Snaploud]

I agree that it was weird that Melanie needed that memory to "prove" David's telekinesis. Otherwise, though, the show continues to impress. I have my doubts that the ratings will justify a long-run (outside of a streaming service), but I'm certainly hooked.

 

[Borgminister]

ok not reading the latest just through ep 2 but... strong Pushing Daisies and Hannibal vibe. Very interesting visual style. If a bit confusing and "challenging" to follow.

 

[Xerxes82]

A few things:

Spoiler

2. Why did Melanie say the kitchen memory proved David was more than a telepath, given that he had already teleported an MRI machine outside in the previous episode, and she should have known about the other tekekinetic stuff he had done ( including what Syd did in his body )? Kind of ridiculous...

In fairness, nobody else was present when one of those happened to witness it directly, and the other happened to somebody disoriented, confused, and scared. Correlation not being causation and all that. I think they meant this was rather definitive proof, rather than just really, really likely.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I enjoyed the references to the TMP transporter accident.

Overall, I'm loving this show so far.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm convinced more than ever that the Devil with the Yellow Eyes is a living creature that exists solely in David's mind. I also think my hypothesis that he/it arrived in David's mind via stars when they talked to David has more credence now. When Ptonomy, Melanie and Syd visited David's memory at the therapist's office, the memory within a memory showed the therapist asking David "What did the stars say?" and it was at that time the Devil with the Yellow Eyes appeared. I think he/it is trying to block all memories of how, when, and why he arrived in David's mind and the therapist stumbled on some kind of truth behind that (perhaps that has some connection to the bloody vision of the therapist we saw last week). When we first heard about the stars in last week's episode, David also saw the Devil in the Yellow Eyes (inside the closet).

I find it interesting that Ptonomy and Melanie can't see the Devil with the Yellow Eyes, but Syd can. I bet it's because she and David switched bodies.

One thing I thought was strange: When David broke into the therapist's office, he was alone and the only presence of Lenny is "one last job and then we're out!" (which was also heard during David's therapy session last week during the discussion about the stars). She seems to have existed physically pre-Clockworks considering Philly saw and fought with Lenny about the cake and frog, and yet Lenny wasn't there for heist. Also, during one of David's flashbacks at the junkyard, we see the Devil with the Yellow Eyes blipping across the scene and then a few moments later, the scene is revisited but standing in Lenny's place next to the stove is a man before blipping back to Lenny.

The one thing that bothers me right now is how Ptonomy and Melanie seem so insistent that David should stop resisting them while revisiting the memories despite clear evidence that it's not him that's resisting (even if they can't see the Devil with the Yellow Eyes).

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm still not convinced that Syd exists objectively, or more precisely that she came into being apart from David, though I'd also not be surprised if she does/did.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm still not convinced that Syd exists objectively, or more precisely that she came into being apart from David, though I'd also not be surprised if she does/did.

Which reminds me: Did we find out why she was admitted to Clockworks?