Legend of the Seeker-Amazing final episode

[JoeZhang]

not sure how much they CAN follow the books now, though. They've already burned so many plot points that ended up being major themes in later books. Rahl as his father (and also his evil half brother) doesn't work as well if Darken Rahl is his brother, as it makes the new brother "just another evil half brother".

The plague storyline was taken from the same book and used for an episode here.

Sisters of Light, major players in the series, have already been pretty much burned up in a one-off reference. They're no longer from the Old World, no experience with Jajang, and seem pretty unlikely to be kidnapping Richard in the near future. The Sisters of Dark also were supposed to come out of that.

We've already played the "multiple copies of the Book of Counted Shadows" game. Suppose it doesn't really matter, though, as the whole point was to get the Boxes of Orden (again), and they appear to have been destroyed by Darken Rahl's bad luck.

Which also took away a couple other big points: Richard hasn't figured out how to be with Kahlan yet. Looked like they were going to include that as part of the finale, but they just dropped it out again, staying with the status quo. Suppose this way, they can keep them together rather than constantly kidnapping Richard or Kahlan to prevent them from being together.

Richard also never defeated Rahl, or really did much of anything to help his growth as a character (and leader). Instead of seeking the truth of the matter, and tricking Rahl, Rahl just died by accident. Fun. Actually, when you look at the entire final sequence, you really can't say that this season was much based upon Wizard's First Rule at all. The First Rule never even played into the defeat, instead of being THE reason for the defeat.

Again, it's an entertaining Fantasy series, and I like watching it, but they've really butchered it to the point where it's fairly dishonest to call it part of the Sword of Truth series. A few tidbits are tossed out here and there, names and locations, but most of the key components have been changed or tossed out entirely. With such a HUGE series to play with, and books with 10s of thousands of pages to draw from, it's a shame.

We haven't had this show yet - has Richard started murdering unarmed civilians or giving lectures about how torture is OK if it's done by good people yet?

 

[Bishbot]

or tossed out entirely. With such a HUGE series to play with, and shit books with 10s of thousands of pages to draw from, it's a shame.

Fixed it for you

No, but seriously, I would have liked them to have stuck a bit closer. Some of the Sword of Truth concepts and mythology are pretty cool and would have been brilliant to see on screen. It's just that Goodkind's writing style and schoolboy politics betrayed his really fairly decent imagination, in the later books, anyway. Throwing away the Sisters of Light, in particular, was a mistake, to my mind.

 

[Lt. Trull]

I still miss the mud people. and Jagang has such a interesting power that it would seem a bad idea not to use it.

 

[Checkmate]

I don't get it. The Seeker didn't kill Rahl. Rahl commited suicide. How pathetically lame.

 

[Lt. Trull]

The seeker didn't kill raul in the books either... but was involved in the death.

The books start getting into prophets and prophecy "A LOT" later in the other books... however, they also stressed that although they say "A".. they can be interperted as "B"....

 

[FreezeC77]

We haven't had this show yet - has Richard started murdering unarmed civilians or giving lectures about how torture is OK if it's done by good people yet?

No he has not, infact in one episode he actually stops the murder of civilians even though they are civilians supporting the D'hara regime. I had pointed out to me something, which I never realized because I think I bought every book but the last one when the second hand book shop I frequented was going out of business and basically letting you stuff a box full of books for $10.

So that's how I got the series a few years ago. What I didn't realize at the time was about half the series was written before 9/11 and the other half after it and didn't really put 2 & 2 together and see that the last 4 books I think, maybe 5. Which were written after 9/11 have Richard that we know tend to associate with the series.

The long-winded neoconish speeches, the 'either with us or against us' type mentality, etc... Not to say that didn't always exist in the series, I think it's just a lot easier to see that after 9/11 it was churned up to an extremely high level in the subsequent books in the series.



As to the whole speculation thing. I'm really hoping maybe we find the Sisters of Light in the Midlands was a splinter-group and that the ones in the Old World still exist. Nicci is probably my favorite character in the books and I want her to actually appear

 

[galleywest]

Not having read the books, I like the universe we're seeing in the tv show. The last few episodes have all been really good, and the show continues to surprise me. The magic painting episode and the werewolf (or whatever it was called) one were both highly entertaining. The mirror episode in particular was a somewhat clever way of having a plot about getting the Book of Counted Shadows that wasn't really about the Book itself--since we'd had that plot already.

I thought the last episode was amazing. I really like Kahlen's character, much more so now than when the series began. At first I thought she was going to be the standard "caring, nuturing" female sidekick/love interest, but she does indeed kick tail. I love what a devious badass she becomes in this, marrying Rahl and having a kid as a strategy to help the Seeker come back to fulfill the prophesy. I also enjoy that although she is emotional, she is very strong and pragmatic about completing her mission.

I'll agree that more detail in a two-parter would have been nice, but I'm certainly not complaining. I like the Nicholas bad guy, the rather ghoulish "Master."

Also, I liked that Rahl was killed in the altered future by his own son as well as by the Seeker. In a way, it shows that ol' Rahl was never going to make it, no matter what. At that point I realized that yeah, they're going there! They're going to actually move the plot forward instead of a never-ending "we have to defeat Rahl" cycle.

This show has been a treat for me, hopefully (knock on wood) the next season will be just as much fun.

 

[JoeZhang]

We haven't had this show yet - has Richard started murdering unarmed civilians or giving lectures about how torture is OK if it's done by good people yet?

No he has not, infact in one episode he actually stops the murder of civilians even though they are civilians supporting the D'hara regime. I had pointed out to me something, which I never realized because I think I bought every book but the last one when the second hand book shop I frequented was going out of business and basically letting you stuff a box full of books for $10.

So that's how I got the series a few years ago. What I didn't realize at the time was about half the series was written before 9/11 and the other half after it and didn't really put 2 & 2 together and see that the last 4 books I think, maybe 5. Which were written after 9/11 have Richard that we know tend to associate with the series.

The long-winded neoconish speeches, the 'either with us or against us' type mentality, etc... Not to say that didn't always exist in the series, I think it's just a lot easier to see that after 9/11 it was churned up to an extremely high level in the subsequent books in the series.

Interesting - I've never checked the dates - I read the first few and enjoyed them but before you know it the characters are torturing people because it's the moral thing to do and Richard is cutting the heads off unarmed people.

 

[Destructor]

Interesting - I've never checked the dates - I read the first few and enjoyed them but before you know it the characters are torturing people because it's the moral thing to do and Richard is cutting the heads off unarmed people.

I read all of them (haven't seen the show) and don't remember this. I remember a fair bit of objectivist ranting but it all made sense in the context of the universe. I'm no neo-con but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a Tom Clancy novels for what they are.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Interesting - I've never checked the dates - I read the first few and enjoyed them but before you know it the characters are torturing people because it's the moral thing to do and Richard is cutting the heads off unarmed people.

I read all of them (haven't seen the show) and don't remember this.

I'm pretty sure there's some "moral" torture in Faith of the Fallen. Cutting the heads off unarmed people is doubtless in reference to this gem of a passage from Naked Empire:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken up as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man made the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

I live in hope that this scene will find its way into the TV series.

 

[galleywest]

Wow, I think I'll skip the books!

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I've never had any interest in reading the books precisely because of scenes like that.

 

[JoeZhang]

Interesting - I've never checked the dates - I read the first few and enjoyed them but before you know it the characters are torturing people because it's the moral thing to do and Richard is cutting the heads off unarmed people.

I read all of them (haven't seen the show) and don't remember this. I remember a fair bit of objectivist ranting but it all made sense in the context of the universe. I'm no neo-con but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a Tom Clancy novels for what they are.

someone did the head-cutting, here comes the torture:

Nicci had no compunction about what she was doing. She knew that there was no moral equivalence between her inflicting torture and the Imperial Order doing what might on the surface seem like the same thing. But her purpose in using it was solely to save innocent lives.

Torture is good kids m'kay?

 

[Skywalker]

How heroic!

 

[Checkmate]

I was watching the series more because it was a fantasy series rather than one based on some books. The more I hear about the books, the less I find myself liking the series. Especially when the "destiny" the Seeker was supposed to fulfill ended up being hogwash.

Seriously. A villain commiting suicide is just lame, book or not. Especially when the build up is of the Seeker being the one to kill him. Which he didn't do. At all. Anymore than if he was standing by a power station and Rahl decided to grab some wires while standing in a puddle or something. It's exactly the same level of stupid.

 

[Scout101]

^it was better in the book, where Richard actually had to reason a bunch of stuff out, and then essentially trick Rahl into mis-using the boxes to destroy himself. MUCH better than the "accidental death while Richard was trying to do something else" that the series gave us.

 

[Loupjo]

I like the series. It's really mindless escapism. It's more fun then the books. Killing off Darken Rahl is ok because then they can get Jagang in the next seasons. The book series also managed to spend one book on Darken Rahl (ok, 1,5 book as there was some Rahl material in the second one too) and the rest of the series on Jagang. So they could intend to do that with the show.

I am wondering though what Terry Goodkind thinks of the show. It's kind of butchering his message about all important human themes. Or maybe he's just happy with the cash.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Darken Rahl is dead but now they have to defeated the dreaded DRAKKAR NOIR!

It's been a pretty good show. You don't see nearly enough severed fingers in syndication.
I'm getting tired of Richard getting his ass handed to him by Mord Sith, though.

 

[TheSeeker]

We haven't had this show yet - has Richard started murdering unarmed civilians or giving lectures about how torture is OK if it's done by good people yet?

No he has not, infact in one episode he actually stops the murder of civilians even though they are civilians supporting the D'hara regime. I had pointed out to me something, which I never realized because I think I bought every book but the last one when the second hand book shop I frequented was going out of business and basically letting you stuff a box full of books for $10.

So that's how I got the series a few years ago. What I didn't realize at the time was about half the series was written before 9/11 and the other half after it and didn't really put 2 & 2 together and see that the last 4 books I think, maybe 5. Which were written after 9/11 have Richard that we know tend to associate with the series.

The long-winded neoconish speeches, the 'either with us or against us' type mentality, etc... Not to say that didn't always exist in the series, I think it's just a lot easier to see that after 9/11 it was churned up to an extremely high level in the subsequent books in the series.



As to the whole speculation thing. I'm really hoping maybe we find the Sisters of Light in the Midlands was a splinter-group and that the ones in the Old World still exist. Nicci is probably my favorite character in the books and I want her to actually appear

Yeah, I read the books as they were published and felt the tone started to change after 9/11, and definitely not all for the good. Goodkind's got a pretty wacked out morality.

As for the finale, I wasn't really impressed. I was hoping to see Richard defeat Rahl like he did at the end of Wizard's First Rule. It was a much more clever story than what we were given in the show.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

Interesting - I've never checked the dates - I read the first few and enjoyed them but before you know it the characters are torturing people because it's the moral thing to do and Richard is cutting the heads off unarmed people.

I read all of them (haven't seen the show) and don't remember this.

I'm pretty sure there's some "moral" torture in Faith of the Fallen. Cutting the heads off unarmed people is doubtless in reference to this gem of a passage from Naked Empire:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken up as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man made the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

I live in hope that this scene will find its way into the TV series.

It's been a few years since I read that book, but I want to say this was the one where he had been a POW slave for the evil empire for about a year while the empire's armies were laying waste to his country. Meanwhile, the civilians of the empire were all about peace and love and no war, meaning you bowed down to the emperor or got raped and murdered by his army of jackbooted thugs, not necessarily in that order and not necessarily an either/or proposition. That wasn't a peace rally he was tearing through, it was a brainwashed mob supporting a tyranical sorcerer-dictator.

And I believe if they hadn't fought their way through to the target, the empire's soldiers would have been able to rally from outside to the capital's defense, or set up a defensive line between them and the objective or something along those lines. He was either leading a nacent rebellion or a crack squad of commandos or some such, too, with pretty much the whole city rising up to resist him. I remember getting a Black Hawk Down thirty guys versus thousands sea of opposition from that part of the book at the time.

Goodkind is definitely a conservative, and tends to go a little crazy with the smite thine enemy stuff, but there's never any ambiguity about who the good guys are slaughtering. The black hats are one and all the most evil fuckers in that world. Until he kills them all and then the REAL bad guys pop up to show just how pansy-ass the last bunch were.