I was just thinking the same thing . . . and I second the motion.
Legal situation concerning the new TV series
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I was just thinking the same thing . . . and I second the motion.
I was never claiming anything contrary to that. All I'm relieved about is that the series isn't a blatant contradiction of, say, Destiny which requires the automatic abandonment of the 24th century post series storyline. So long as all parties are content to keep with the status quo, the novels are more likely than not going to be able to simply roll with the punches of any new information or retcons that pop up.
And yet it's very close to the time frame of Vanguard, so it could easily conflict with that. Or with any of the Pike-related books that have come out in recent years. And what if it, say, explores Andorian sexuality in a way that completely contradicts how the novel Andorians have been portrayed across the novelverse? TNG blew the '80s Pocket continuity out of the water despite being a century removed from its setting, because it disagreed with the novels' portrayal of Klingon and Romulan culture. You can't assume the time period makes anything in the novels safe.
Maybe. But the show's staff will surely not be making any effort to conform to the novel continuity, even though Kirsten Beyer is on the staff. Their job is not to "keep with the status quo." Their job is to tell a new story in whatever way best serves their needs. Hopefully we will be able to "roll with the punches" the way we did with Enterprise. There were some contradictions between ENT and what earlier novels had established, but they were things that we could retcon or finesse after the fact. Hopefully the same will be true here. But there are no guarantees.
I accept all those statements, but none of the examples of contrictions you suggested seem like total deal breakers which would neccesitate the abandonment of the ongoing DS9 storyline, for example. I fully expect that Discovery will not prevent, say, a sequel to The Long Mirage from coming out in 2018. Thats all I'm saying. If Discovery had been a Captain Worf show about an all out war with the Borg in the year 2385, then I would not have that expectation.
I'm just saying, you never know. Every fictional world has a history, not just a present, so anything established about the Federation's past could have any number of ramifications for the future. Or vice-versa, as was the case with TNG and the '80s novels.
Yeah, I'm pretty surprised too. I have to eat my hat now, I guess!
Because the Litverse is obviously superior.
(Don't even talk to me about STO, because that timeline exists solely for the game - and even then, is skewed towards making everything as warlike as possible.)
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Devin Faraci at BirthMoviesDeath just pointed out something about Discovery's placement in the Prime Trek timeline.
Playing with the characters and canon is something that Fuller did on Hannibal all the time, so I could definitely see things like this happening over the course of the series. T'Pol, Soval and Guinan are all out there somewhere too.
Playing with the characters and canon is something that Fuller did on Hannibal all the time, so I could definitely see things like this happening over the course of the series. T'Pol, Soval and Guinan are all out there somewhere too.
Actually the movies are up to 2263 now, but yeah, I had the thought earlier that if they wanted to cast someone as a young member of the TOS cast, why not use the actors from the movies? (Then again, Supergirl cast its own Superman rather than getting Henry Cavill. It might be pretty expensive to get a member of the movie cast.)
I read a comment from Fuller somewhere today (I think) saying that the show would spend the first year establishing its own identity, then maybe start exploring wider continuity ties in the second (not unlike what Supergirl is doing).
I read a comment from Fuller somewhere today (I think) saying that the show would spend the first year establishing its own identity, then maybe start exploring wider continuity ties in the second (not unlike what Supergirl is doing).
Oooh! I didn't see that Fuller comment yet, but I really like that approach. Learning to walk before they run and all that. After all, TOS aside, Trek series have always been slow starters. Hell, even both the TOS and Next Gen film series had rather lackluster initial outings. Not that Hannibal's first season wasn't good (it was brilliant actually), but Fuller didn't go nuts with the continuity references until Seasons 2 and 3.
I had the same thoughts, as excited as I am to see any part of the timeline filled. I'm not 100% convinced that we won't see continuing alternate timelines spun out of Discovery at some point, though:
"Since we are doing this series in 2016, and all the other series have been produced in a timeline that isn’t as sophisticated as we are now in terms of what we can do production-wise, we’re going to be reestablishing an entire look for the series. Not only for the series, but for what we want to accomplish for Star Trek beyond the series. So we have to start early on with a touch point where people can understand and have access into it, show them how we’re reimagining Star Trek and then hold their hand as we pull them hopefully into iterations a lot of different timelines beyond what we have seen.”
That quote is a bit confusing, since Fuller clearly starts off talking about a production timeline, but his final statement might indicate different timelines. It's definitely possible he misspoke, but given Fuller's extensive history with Trek I wouldn't dismiss the idea that the series will have a foothold in the prime universe but later expand into alternate timelines out of hand.
Having just seen the second trailer, "redonkulous" is definitely the best description. If Discovery can somehow pull off the trick of making something that looks like it can exist alongside "The Cage", but also make it feel in-the-moment and exciting and immense in scale in the vein of Rogue One (scaled down appropriately for a 2016 streaming TV budget, of course), that would be amazing. Trek has pulled it off before, as you point out, but it might be different this time.
I'm hoping to see that too.
There is that tradition of characters from previous series making a cameo in the first episode... On the other hand, if they do decide to break from "The Cage" stuff significantly, maybe they'll use stock footage and special effects to really sell the idea that this is still the Prime Universe, whatever differences there might be. (Having seen Avery Brooks meet 60s-era Shatner on screen, and William Hartnell steal the TARDIS, anything is possible!)Whatever they end up doing, I think it's going to be fantastic.
TC
Continuing to think about it, visual faithfulness does seem to be a larger trend in visual entertainment. At a guess, I'd credit it to the up-and-coming generation of filmmakers growing up with home video, and knowing how these things can be studied rather than just scene a handful of times at the cinema or in reruns and then living on in foggy memories. It's not just the "period piece" aspect, but even in normal sequels. The Enterprise interior sets were all rebuilt from scratch in Vancouver for "Star Trek Beyond," and the bridge looked more consistent with its appearance in the prior two movies than the Enterprise sets were between TMP, TWOK, and TSFS. And those were the same sets!
And the worm has turned fairly recently. "The Dark Knight" replaced virtually all the props, costumes, and environments from "Batman Begins" (to the point where, aside from the actors, they hardly seemed to be set in the same version of Gotham) but "The Dark Knight Rises" went out of its way to incorporate and reconcile design elements from both movies. "Quantum of Solace" took place immediately after "Casino Royale," but had a crazy new MI6 tabletop computer (and, apparently, Bond changed from a three-piece-suit to one without a vest in the half-hour between the two films), but then "Spectre" was sure to include the destroyed headquarters building from "Skyfall" just as it had been left in the prior film.
I realize I'm focusing on surface details, but production design is kind of my area. I recognize that, as Christopher points out, being devoted to the past can keep Star Trek from exploring more modern sci-fi ideas. I feel like it's possible to have something that splits the difference, that looks like Star Trek and feels like Star Trek while also being new and up-to-date in terms of storytelling and sci-fi ideas. Maybe it's using retcons like implying we just never saw all the alien crew members on Kirk's Enterprise, or maybe it's by putting more modern sci-fi questions in the form of new alien civilizations. I actually agree with what he's said elsewhere, that if you want a Star Trek that reflects the state of 2010s sci-fi as well as the original reflected the genre in 1960s, it'd be best to go for a BSG-style remake that's more loosely inspired by the original that a direct continuation. I just also think that if you are doing a continuation, you may as well get down on the ground and roll around in it.
A neat thing that I don't think I've seen noted before, Discovery isn't just the name of the ship and the show, it's also referring to the central character's journey:
“In order to understand something that is so completely alien from her, she must first understand herself. That's part of our journey on this planet, to get along, and that's part of our journey in this first season.”
“In order to understand something that is so completely alien from her, she must first understand herself. That's part of our journey on this planet, to get along, and that's part of our journey in this first season.”
Oooh. Thank you for that insight -- I didn't connect the idea the title to the protagonist's journey of self-discovery until you pointed that out. I like it.
(I have to admit I was disappointed to hear that they were naming the show after the ship again. I was hoping for a title more poetic or thematic -- but you just provided one!)
Sadly, the original ratings/audiences for DS9, then VOY, then "Nemesis", were all way below what was sustainable. VOY only lasted on UPN for seven years because it was the network's best-performing one-hour drama, but it wasn't succeeding when compared to its competitors. I'm sure the original intention was to have a motion picture sequel to DS9, but the numbers didn't add up.
Just as nostalgia for TOS worked for Season 4 of ENT and the creation of the new timeline in Star Trek 2009, it seems that nostalgia for TOS will be strong with "Discovery". It's also set in a period when guest appearances from the current Kelvin timeline actors is on the cards. (I heard Whoopi Goldberg is tossing about her desire to appear - a clever idea since Guinan is seeming ageless under those hats.)
I think that a return to the 24th century is inevitable. But just not yet.
I'm in love with the setting choice, it's exciting. i just hope 4 sexes is somehow maintained.
As for casting, I kinda just keep dreaming of the Hannibal cast in space with similar baroque, sexy, sensual filming & language (although that side of fuller seems to have gone into American Gods).
The main character not being the captain is great - its the same onus as the vanguard bible, and it's comparable to Jack Crawford, important but not central. Can Hettienne Park be back on tv? Also I hope Michael Rymer is somehow involved too, he's perfect given his BSG and Hannnibal experience
As for casting, I kinda just keep dreaming of the Hannibal cast in space with similar baroque, sexy, sensual filming & language (although that side of fuller seems to have gone into American Gods).
The main character not being the captain is great - its the same onus as the vanguard bible, and it's comparable to Jack Crawford, important but not central. Can Hettienne Park be back on tv? Also I hope Michael Rymer is somehow involved too, he's perfect given his BSG and Hannnibal experience
I could see the four sexes idea moving into canon. Fuller is a canon nerd so he knows where the implication of the idea comes from, and it seems to be an idea that really fits in with his love for inclusiveness. And if Andorains came up in the writers room I can't imagine Kirsten difn't at leadt mention the idea from the novels. Whether they all decided they liked that direction or not, who knows, but I can see it as a possibility.
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