Lazarus Effect
- Thread starter gakelly
- Start date
Any proof this was a real order, and not a Kirk-bluff?
No.
If it was a Kirk bluff it was one that he and Scotty would have had to set up together before the landing party beamed down, since Scotty readies the Enterprise's weapons without any further instructions from his captain.
But if GO 24 is a real order to bluff, then not just these two but the whole Starfleet would have trained for it in advance, just like they would have trained for truly glassing a planet, or for performing planetary evacuation, or for enforcing a blockade, or whatever.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
So, GO24 is a standing order to threaten to exterminate a planet, but never actually do it? Let's hope the rule book never gets leaked out of Starfleet, otherwise word would soon spread and GO24 would never fool anyone!
It was a real order, since Scotty knew what it meant, never referred to it as a bluff (e.g. the "Corbomite" ploy used against the Romulans in "The Deadly Years"). I loved that moment, as it proved that Starfleet of that time was not a band of peacenik ideologues who ran screaming from hard or deadly decisions.
Further, in "Bread and Circuses", Claudius relates just how much Merrick told him about Starship capabilities:
Merrick---through Claudius--indicates that Starfleet ships have the power to turn a planet into a burning rock in space, but his casual reference to the capability implies it is a measure which can be used under certain circumstances.
I have to admit: I love that idea. That's my new head-canon.
If GO Twenty-four was a bluff then Kirk would feel no need to order its cancellation. But instead we have
SPOCK: There's a chance it may work, Captain.
KIRK: Kirk to Enterprise. Scotty?
SCOTT [OC]: Scott here, Captain.
KIRK: Cancel implementation of General Order Twenty Four. Alert transporter room. We're ready to beam up.
KIRK: Kirk to Enterprise. Scotty?
SCOTT [OC]: Scott here, Captain.
KIRK: Cancel implementation of General Order Twenty Four. Alert transporter room. We're ready to beam up.
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Sounds like Space Cadet and the Solar Patrol.
Well, the Eminians were still right there: no reason to give it away.
It was Alt-Laz all along.
Yes but Alt-Laz was the good guy!!! He was the calm, rational one and the one who was concerned for the safety of both of their universes!!!!
JB
If, by "right there", you mean
down the hallway,
passed the doors,
on the other side of the Enterprise security guards,
with the closest Eminarans being their guards,
and the remaining Councilmen on the far side of them,
then, I suppose...but it seems a bit of a stretch that Kirk is doing performance art for those guys way in the back.
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x23hd/atasteofarmageddonhd879.jpg
"Canceling GO24" doesn't establish anything about whether it was an order to glass the planet or an order to pretend to do so. Kirk would wish to put a stop to both: "Scotty, let them live" and "Scotty, from now on you can accept my commands as real rather than something I do under duress and to fool my captors" would both warrant the cancel we hear.
Of course any starship crew would need a prearranged code for bluffing, given the abundance of "boss captured" plots and the great number of situations where the heroes have to directly negotiate with threat forces. There might be a fleetwide one taught in the manuals - but Kirk would need another, for those cases where he has to bluff Tracey or Decker or a random Badmiral. And those would of course have their own winks and secret handshakes and whatnot.
How does one bluff as per GO24? Why, by actually pointing the guns. That's the one and only point of the exercise: to let the bad guys observe and shit their pants. So whatever action Scotty took would largely consist of the real deal. Which is why we really can't tell the bluff apart from the actual genocide.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course any starship crew would need a prearranged code for bluffing, given the abundance of "boss captured" plots and the great number of situations where the heroes have to directly negotiate with threat forces. There might be a fleetwide one taught in the manuals - but Kirk would need another, for those cases where he has to bluff Tracey or Decker or a random Badmiral. And those would of course have their own winks and secret handshakes and whatnot.
How does one bluff as per GO24? Why, by actually pointing the guns. That's the one and only point of the exercise: to let the bad guys observe and shit their pants. So whatever action Scotty took would largely consist of the real deal. Which is why we really can't tell the bluff apart from the actual genocide.
Timo Saloniemi
Why did Alt-Laz created the situation in the first place: opening a door into our universe? Hmm. Maybe it was an unforeseen occurrence from his experiment? Anyway, also unforeseen, it evoked insane Lazarus in the process. His "good" solution is to repetitively (and secretly) swap places with Lazarus for reconnaissance into our universe to learn what insane Lazarus was up to. As a result, Alt-Laz got the plan to use dilithium crystals to trap Lazarus in the corridor so he doesn't destroy both universes. I can agree with your analysis.Yes but Alt-Laz was the good guy!!! He was the calm, rational one and the one who was concerned for the safety of both of their universes!!!!
JB
Good reminder. Once again, the meaning is in the dialogue, which supports GO-24 is a real procedure, not a bluff. Its never considered or referred to as that, and doing so would have robbed the scene of its impact about just how far Kirk was willing to go when his crew was in danger. This was not Berman-Trek.
Alt-Lazarus probably never realised the dangers of the experiment to open a door to another universe! I mean it destroyed his and the other Lazarus's civilizations! The time travel option too must have been used because if both realities were in flux during the transition period then there would be some historic references so the fact that both had gone into their own futures proves that!
JB
JB
I always assumed the "I am a time traveller" was another one of Mad-Laz's ramblings, since it plays no other role in the story
When was there ever an indication that their actual civilizations were actually destroyed?
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