Latest GoldenEye 64 Rumors

[FordSVT]

I played it so much when it came out, but trying to pick this game up recently.... almost unplayable. It was like I had to un-learn a decade of FPS progress in order to play its hackneyed control scheme. Keep the levels and weapons and general strategy intact but revise the control scheme and I'd be there.

 

[Rii]

It was like I had to un-learn a decade of FPS progress in order to play its hackneyed control scheme.

What progress would that be, exactly?

 

[firehawk12]

Funny enough, Pachter came out and said that a remake would fail.
Being Wii exclusive makes sense though. The rumour was that Iwata didn't want to see an N64 game on another platform. They have no rights to PD and Banjo, but I guess this was a little more ambiguous.

 

[SilentP]

It was like I had to un-learn a decade of FPS progress in order to play its hackneyed control scheme.

What progress would that be, exactly?

Well the general introduction of a second 'stick' on most controls makes looking around a lot more smoother, rather than using buttons to strafe and look up and down. Apart from that, I can't think of anything significant.

 

[FordSVT]

It was like I had to un-learn a decade of FPS progress in order to play its hackneyed control scheme.

What progress would that be, exactly?

The ability to jump.

The ability to duck.

Strafing in GE64 is almost broken.

The ability to look around smoothly or in a precise fashion cannot be trivialized. Have you noticed the degree of auto-aiming this game does to compensate? The control layouts give you two choices: aim precisely and move around like an idiot or vice versa. Moving and looking do not belong on the same control stick/button set. Strafe left/right and look up/down on the stick at the same time? Really?

Anything and everything to do with one of the worst controllers ever created to play video games. It's a three-pronged hose-beast.

Nothing to do with playing that game is as intuitive as any modern shooter, not by a long shot. People accepted it because it was "good enough" back then to get by, but it feels really dated to play now. I'm sure you'll disagree, Rii, but the second analog stick utterly changed the way we played FPS games on a console. I have no idea how you could trivialize that, it's huge.

But please, tell me how someone who weened themselves on CoD and Halo would be perfectly happy playing Goldeneye the way it is, because it's just like playing a modern shooter. Right?

 

[Rii]

I'm sure you'll disagree, Rii, but the second analog stick utterly changed the way we played FPS games on a console. I have no idea how you could trivialize that, it's huge.

My problem is that I think you're confusing change with progress, design decisions in individual games with genre standards, and specific hardware configurations with the generalised concepts they embody. And then conflating all of the above.

I would categorically deny that dual analogue is superior to single analogue in responsiveness and accuracy. The mouse/keyboard combination kicks the living shit out of dual analogue with respect to such and is a single analogue system.

Dual analogue does offer the advantage of, well, analogue movement, whereas with single analogue one must either toggle movement speeds or hold a modifier button, a requirement which is difficult to accommodate on a gamepad.

The PC gaming market standardised on WASD for FPS movement control, despite the very real advantages ESDF offers over it. Folks got used to WASD in the early days of FPS gaming and so kept using it, even when games requiring more control inputs (better accommodated by ESDF) came along. I myself continue to use WASD. Why? Fuck you, that's why.

I see that the market standardised (for the moment) on dual analogue. I'm unconvinced that it is intrinsically superior to single analogue; that a single-analogue controller designed with FPS games in mind would not be the equal of a dual analogue controller in every respect except the expectations of the player.

But please, tell me how someone who weened themselves on CoD and Halo would be perfectly happy playing Goldeneye the way it is, because it's just like playing a modern shooter. Right?

Modern shooters? Pfft. Of the few notable entries in the genre since 2002 or so, two aren't really FPS games at all (Portal, Mirror's Edge) and the third - Bioshock - is in most respects a step back from System Shock 2. Modern shooters (and the folks raised on them) can kiss my ass.

 

[FordSVT]

Portal would be absolutely impossible to play using the N64 controller and Goldeneye control scheme.

Actually, your entire post is shit. It's your opinion, Rii, but I think 90% of the gamers in the world would disagree with you about dual analogs offering no significant advantage over a single analog stick.

Oh, but then your extreme bias against every game made in the last 8 years shows at the end of your post, like always.... yeah, those shitty Half Life games.... what was Valve thinking with those....

 

[Rii]

Portal would be absolutely impossible to play using the N64 controller and Goldeneye control scheme.

Who said anything about using Goldeneye's control scheme? It's easy to see why Rare used it, but it's obviously unsuited to any game requiring the player to exploit the vertical axis to any significant degree. Which is why other first-person games on the platform such as Turok and Forsaken didn't use it.

Personally I'm surprised folks managed to get through Portal on a gamepad at all. Let's see them try Ricochet with their fancy 'dual analogue' contraptions.

 

[firehawk12]

How did single analog work in GE64 anyway? The stick was used to control camera movement?

 

[StolenThunder]

Forwards/back/rotate. C buttons strafed and looked up/down.

 

[Rii]

The stick was for looking/turning left and right and moving forwards and backwards. The C-buttons were for strafing left and right and looking/pointing up and down. The latter function - required only whilst moving as there was also an 'aim (with analogue stick)' function enabled by holding the R button - was certainly awkward but wasn't required to be used very often, given that Rare's level designers weren't working in a vacuum.

Of course Goldeneye had eight different control schemes, including dual analogue via multiple controllers. That was just the default.

Turok, in contrast, assigned camera control entirely to the analogue stick as is done on contemporary systems. WASD was handled via either the D-Pad or C-buttons.

 

[Shazam!]

No radar, 1 hit kills. Any other way of playing the the game is for girls.

 

[Rii]

No radar, 1 hit kills. Any other way of playing the the game is for girls.

Throwing Knives on Stack.

 

[firehawk12]

That default layout seems... very counter-intuitive. I guess they were trying to figure it out back then.

 

[Rii]

That default layout seems... very counter-intuitive. I guess they were trying to figure it out back then.

I think the control scheme was the result of a number of factors, chief amongst them the presumed inexperience of the player and a reluctance to throw them into a 'full 3D' world. The layout, for the most part, is very 2.5D as with Doom or Duke Nukem even though the engine supports more. After all, the game began as a rail shooter.

The player can get through the game without resorting to the C-buttons at all, using only the analogue stick plus the A, B, Z and R buttons. It's only in multiplayer (with players above a certain calibre) and when pushing for time achievements that the C-buttons are actually needed; whereas with Turok the 'minimum competence' bar is somewhat higher. I don't imagine that Rare's choice was an accident.

Incidentally, Goldeneye features the classic strafing exploit (i.e. go faster by moving diagonally) common to many engines of the period.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, if I wanted to move forward, I'd zig zag the c buttons. Always felt like I was moving faster. The downside (that I do think dual analogs help with) is with aiming. The R aiming could be a bit difficult at times, but a person good at it had a significant advantage over those who did not and had to rely on auto-aiming.

 

[Broccoli]

I don't understand the claim that you couldn't crouch in GoldenEye...I remember doing that all the time.

Oh, and the best way to play the game is no radar, one hit kills, and slappers!

 

[Lonemagpie]

I don't understand the claim that you couldn't crouch in GoldenEye...I remember doing that all the time.

Oh, and the best way to play the game is no radar, one hit kills, and slappers!

yeah, it's just jumping you couldn't do - it's been so long I'd forgotten

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Jumping isn't really necessary. Nothing is more annoying than the twat in Halo that just hops around the entire game.

 

[Akiraprise]

I played it so much when it came out, but trying to pick this game up recently.... almost unplayable.

The same happened to me. I tried playing against a buddy and got my ass handed to me severely. Wasn't quite how I remembered.