Last Doctor Who Story you listened to?

[Christopher]

I've listened to the first two Jago & Litefoot stories now (not counting the Companion Chronicles pilot). They're entertaining, but not flawless. The Bloodless Soldier was somewhat contrived in how it managed to draw Jago, Litefoot, and Ellie all into the same affair separately, though that won't be so bad if they don't make a habit of it. It had a pretty intense ending, with a bold twist in Jago having to bear the burden of putting the guy out of his misery. The problem, though, is that there was no follow-up on that in The Bellova Devil, even though it's evidently set not long after. Hopefully it will have consequences later on.

I had issued with the lack of continuity in another way, since it was weird in Devil to see Litefoot being so dismissive of the possibility of vampires when he'd dealt with a werewolf or something of the sort in the immediately previous story. But it's an interesting contrast -- Soldier was a straight-up fantasy-horror premise, while Devil ended up having a mundane "it was all a scam" resolution with an ambiguous hint that there might be some truth to the supernatural suppositions. I wonder if that means we'll have some straight-up mystery installments with no sci-fi, fantasy, or horror elements.

Devil had one pretty glaring anachronism. It's set in the 1890s, apparently, but the Secretary encases Jago's feet in cement, a method he attributes to Al Capone -- who was born in 1899! Although since this is in the Doctor Who universe, I wonder whether that's just a failure of research or a hint that the recurring baddie Doctor Tulp is a time traveler. Although there's another internal anachronism -- at one point, Jago says he's no Sherlock Holmes, and later, Litefoot spouts a longer-winded version of Holmes's "When you eliminate the impossible" maxim and it's suggested that he might condense it into a pithier version. If Holmes is a known entity, then surely so is his maxim.

 

[Christopher]

I've been continuing to work through Jago & Litefoot, though I haven't felt like reviewing every one. I wasn't crazy about the second season's vampire arc, because I thought Doctor Who had its own distinct take on vampires, so having the existence of the conventional type be taken for granted seemed a little odd. Overall, this series seems far more comfortable with supernatural ideas like werewolves, vampires, and ghosts, compared to the parent franchise where everything seemingly supernatural is presumed to have a scientific explanation. It fits the period, granted, but it feels a bit incongruous. (Although Torchwood also did a couple of episodes about blatantly supernatural evils with no attempt at a rational handwave.)

Adding Leela to the mix in season 3 was a great idea; having an outsider to bounce off of all the Victoriana adds a nice new dynamic. Although the "searching for cracks in time" arc was a pretty blatantly contrived excuse to involve Leela in a set of episodic adventures.

But I've just started season 4, and I'm annoyed.

Spoiler

Season 3 ended with a heck of a cliffhanger with Colin Baker showing up as (supposedly) "Professor Claudius Dark" (which I was unspoiled on, so I thought it was David Warner for a moment until I realized who it really was). Then season 4 opens with a recap of that shocking cliffhanger, with "Dark" telling J&L they have to come with him, and then... just ignores it and tells a totally unrelated and rather uninteresting story, with no more than a throwaway reference to J&L "extricating" themselves from Dark. I hate it when the follow-up for a cliffhanger is such a total copout. Especially a cliffhanger this big. It makes me feel like I've been lied to.

 

[Christopher]

Okay, I've gotten through Jago & Litefoot's two trips with the Doctor (I liked the Venus one better -- nice Burroughs/Verne riff, though the explanation for the Venusian lullaby was a bit labored), and I'm one story into their tenure in the year of my birth, 1968. Still too early to say how I feel about that change of setting, but I suppose it's good to mix things up.

Anyway, don't spoil me, but I think they've been hinting that Litefoot is secretly gay. At the start of season 4, he got all mysterious about some unseen lost love that "could never be," and in the subsequent Oscar Wilde episode, he took a sympathetic tone toward "the love that dare not speak its name" and expressed the hope that it would be acceptable in some more enlightened future. And in the first 1968 episode, he seemed less affected by the hallucination of the dancing girls than the other men were, and he said that women were more Jago's area than his. (Although it was Jago who referred to himself as a "confirmed bachelor," which used to be a euphemism for a gay man, though the story clearly didn't intend for Jago to mean it that way.) Litefoot did mention miniskirts as one of the great benefits of the 1960s, but in the context of trying to convince Jago of the decade's merits.

 

[Christopher]

Still working my way through Jago & Litefoot. Season 5 came to an interesting climax.

Spoiler

The last thing I expected in a season set in 1968 was a direct sequel to "The Talons of Weng-Chiang," but what they said in the documentary feature makes sense -- doing that in the Victorian era would've just felt like a rehash, but setting it 75 years later makes it fresher. (Plus it gave them a handy way to return home without needing the Doctor.)

As for season 6, I don't mind returning them to Victorian times, but I don't like the contrivance of having them lose their memories of their time with the Doctor and in 1968. The things characters go through should inform their personalities going forward, or what's the point? I mean, I can see how giving them knowledge of the future would be tricky to deal with going forward, but how is that different from Sarah Jane or Martha or any companion who has continued adventures after their time with the Doctor? I suppose it's more complicated because they have knowledge of their own personal futures, and Ellie's, but just wiping their memory altogether feels like a cheat to evade that issue, especially since there was no real attempt to explain why it happened other than "It must have been the Time Cabinet mumblemumble."

Overall, I didn't like season 6's stories as well as most of the previous seasons. It feels like they've lost their way a bit. Hopefully it's just a question of finding their balance again.

It occurred to me just now that I hope there's some future story coming up in which J&L have to try to impersonate each other. It'd be fun to hear Litefoot trying to emulate Henry's dithyrambically digressive discourse and alliterative arabesques, and Jago trying to rein himself into George's prim upper-class delivery. Alternatively, an episode where J&L switch bodies and Benjamin & Baxter actually play one another's characters, as opposed to playing their own characters trying to play each other, would be fun too.

 

[JD]

I just started my first Doctor Who audio story, Foe From the Future, earlier this morning. I enjoyed it, this was my first time listening to this kind of audio drama, so I wasn't sure how easy it was going to be to follow, but I didn't have a problem. I had it on while I was showering, so there were a few parts I missed. I didn't catch what originally brought The Doctor and Leela to Staffham, and I couldn't tell, did the priest go into the house before he died, or was he still outside?

 

[Christopher]

It occurred to me just now that I hope there's some future story coming up in which J&L have to try to impersonate each other. It'd be fun to hear Litefoot trying to emulate Henry's dithyrambically digressive discourse and alliterative arabesques, and Jago trying to rein himself into George's prim upper-class delivery.

Aha, and in the season 7 finale I got what I wanted, or half of it anyway, as Ellie ropes Litefoot into pretending to be Jago. He was better at it than I expected.

Season 7 featured a couple of real-life historical figures, one of whom was immediately familiar -- Arthur Conan Doyle -- but I didn't realize Inspector Abberline was a real historical personage until I looked him up in the TARDIS Wiki. I saw the article about him discussing all the unrelated Doctor Who audios and comics that used the character, and at first I thought it was an unusual degree of continuity between adaptations, but then I started to wonder, and then I noted the category link at the bottom to "People from the real world."

I find myself wishing the seasons of J&L were at least a couple of stories longer. They tend to do one story setting up a new status quo, then one standalone story that may have little to do with the season arc, then a third story that brings it to a crisis point and a finale that resolves it. So there's barely any room to explore the situation before it reaches its peak.

Edited to add: The next Jago & Litefoot story is part of The Worlds of Doctor Who, an anniversary event crossing over with other BF originals Counter-Measures, Gallifrey, and a couple of UNIT characters from of the later Companion Chronicles (played by Daphne Ashbrook & Yee Jee Tso). Hoopla doesn't have Gallifrey, unfortunately, but it turns out they do have the first three box sets of Counter-Measures, and Worlds takes place after season 3, so I think I'll shift gears to that before listening to Worlds. I wish I'd figured this out sooner; I could've alternated them with J&L.

 

[diankra]

Abberline is pretty common in Ripper fiction, and in reality remained in the force till retirement. Michael Caine played him in the 1988 Jack the Ripper miniseries.

 

[Christopher]

Just finished season 1 of Counter-Measures. A decent attempt to do a '60s sort of Quatermass/Avengers thing with maybe a bit of Danger Man thrown in, which is ironic given that its source characters are from a 1988 story ("Remembrance of the Daleks") that was set in 1963 but not tonally '60s-ish at all in its storytelling style. It's okay, but I still wish I'd found it sooner so I could've alternated it with Jago & Litefoot, which is more fun.

The first season is set in 1964, and I find myself thinking, hmm, Ian and Barbara get back to Earth in 1965. And then there's that whole deal with WOTAN and the War Machines in '66. I doubt they'll deal with those, but I can't help but wonder.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Never listened to Counter-Measures, though I should get to it at some point. I guess Jago & Litefoot set the standard for spin-off so high I thought none other could reach it - and so far, none have, though The Sarah Janes Adventures came really close. Torchwood has been a wildly inconsistent affair, tonally and storytelling-wise.

And I'm so glad you're enjoying the J&L stories. Even at their weakest, which you've noted when those are, its still fun to listen to those characters. Ultimate proof, in my mind, that for its legit shortcoming, the strengths of Talons of Weng-Chiang are greater and born from goodwill and wit.

 

[Christopher]

Never listened to Counter-Measures, though I should get to it at some point.

I wondered if it would be too similar to UNIT, and there is some overlap; on the documentary feature, one of the writers likened it to the adventures of Liz Shaw and her assistant Jo Grant working for UNIT without the Doctor. But it's distinct in downplaying the military stuff in favor of eerie phenomena, scientific conspiracies, and government intrigue, in the vein of Nigel Kneale or The X-Files (their description). They've added a fourth lead, Sir Toby, the government man in charge of the team, who's debonair and devious and you're not quite sure if he's a good guy or not. He reminds me of James Lester from Primeval.

and so far, none have, though The Sarah Janes Adventures came really close. Torchwood has been a wildly inconsistent affair, tonally and storytelling-wise.

Are you talking about the TV shows or their Big Finish versions?

And I'm so glad you're enjoying the J&L stories. Even at their weakest, which you've noted when those are, its still fun to listen to those characters.

Both actors have terrific voices, especially Trevor Baxter. (Well, "had" in his case, alas.)

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I wondered if it would be too similar to UNIT, and there is some overlap; on the documentary feature, one of the writers likened it to the adventures of Liz Shaw and her assistant Jo Grant working for UNIT without the Doctor. But it's distinct in downplaying the military stuff in favor of eerie phenomena, scientific conspiracies, and government intrigue, in the vein of Nigel Kneale or The X-Files (their description). They've added a fourth lead, Sir Toby, the government man in charge of the team, who's debonair and devious and you're not quite sure if he's a good guy or not. He reminds me of James Lester from Primeval.

Sir Toby is introduced in the Seventh Doctor sequel to Remembrance of the Daleks, called 1963: The Assassination Games. Of course, I think that audio was written after the first CM series was out, but I am not certain. In any case, the Seventh Doctor and Ace cross the CM's path a third time in The Split Infinitive, a story from the Legacy of Time box-set anthology series.

Are you talking about the TV shows or their Big Finish versions?

I guess both, since J&L rules supreme as the Doctor Who spin-off that I most like. TSJA TV series is a close second, and her audio adventures are just fine, on their own. Torchwood on TV is wildly inconsistent, and indeed I only find the second and third series to be any good, but their BF output is mostly decent, if not interchangeable after a while. But crucially, Torchwood never lives up to its potential with a Highlander-esque protagonist to be anything but another alien procedural show. Except with Children of Men, obviously. And like I said, BF is usually better at handling TW than the show itself was, but it still is.... just alright.

Both actors have terrific voices, especially Trevor Baxter. (Well, "had" in his case, alas.)

Its actually refreshing to hear someone refer to Baxter for once, since every review under the sun is usually showering praises of Benjamin (and rightfully so, he's stunningly good), and I feel Mr. Baxter deserves an equal claim of that praise since he, like Benjamin, sound almost exactly like they did back in Talons and that is not an inconsiderate feat.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Abberline is pretty common in Ripper fiction, and in reality remained in the force till retirement. Michael Caine played him in the 1988 Jack the Ripper miniseries.

Johnny Deep played him in From Hell (though not with any historical accuracy), and Hugo Weaving played a fictionalized Abberline in The Wolfman about ten years back. He was also a minor character in the BBC's Ripper Street, and the main character in that series, Inspector Edmund Reid, was another real person involved in the Ripper investigation.

One thing about Abberline -- we don't know what he looked like. There are one or two photos that might be him, and there are some sketches that suggest he was heavy and had a mustache. We have life photos of all of the canonical Ripper victims, and no definitive photos of one of the primary investigators who was tasked with finding their killer.

 

[Christopher]

I find it a bit disturbing that even Jack the Ripper has a canon.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Oh, "canonical victims." Yeah, I didn't think of it in a fannish sense.

There are a number of unsolved murders in the 1887-1893 period that people said were by the Ripper, either retrospectively or in the newspapers of the time. In the vast majority of cases, there's little, if any, reason to believe that the murders were committed by the same person responsible for, say, the murder of Liz Stride in 1888. The "canonical five" are the victims where there's an historical and evidentiary consensus -- Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes, and Mary Kelly, all in the autumn of 1888 -- and even then, there are reasons for doubting one or two of those. (Stride wasn't mutilated like the others, Kelly was brutally mutilated in a private apartment instead of on the street.) I usually get grumpy with movies that invent victims -- A Study in Terror[/i[, I'm looking at you -- because the facts are interesting enough on their own.

 

[JD]

I was surprised to hear that the "Fourth Doctor Box Set" that includes Foe From the Future has interviews between the episodes. I didn't realize until I heard the interview after the fourth episode that Charlotte From The Village is Molly from Sherlock. I thought she sounded kinda familiar, but wasn't confident enough to look her up.

 

[Christopher]

Meanwhile, I only recently discovered that the title "The Foe from the Future" is an allusion to "The Talons of Weng-Chiang." At the end, when Jago asked where Magnus Greel had come from, the Doctor replied, "He was a foe from the future, Henry."

 

[diankra]

Meanwhile, I only recently discovered that the title "The Foe from the Future" is an allusion to "The Talons of Weng-Chiang." At the end, when Jago asked where Magnus Greel had come from, the Doctor replied, "He was a foe from the future, Henry."

Other way round: it's an acknowledgement that Talons was a rush replacement for Foe when other commitments meant Robert Banks Stewart had to drop out of delivering the script.

 

[Christopher]

Other way round: it's an acknowledgement that Talons was a rush replacement for Foe when other commitments meant Robert Banks Stewart had to drop out of delivering the script.

Oh, that's right, "Talons" replaced it. So they put in that line as an in-joke, eh? I guess that explains the odd phrasing.

Ironic that a rush job ended up being one of the franchise's best-regarded serials.

 

[diankra]

Oh, that's right, "Talons" replaced it. So they put in that line as an in-joke, eh? I guess that explains the odd phrasing.

Ironic that a rush job ended up being one of the franchise's best-regarded serials.

Such a rush job that 5 and 6 hadn't been written when the first four entered production, hence no location work in the last two, while Jago and Litefoot don't meet in the first four.
Seems that Hinchcliffe and Maloney made the first four thinking that the villain was the Master after another botched regeneration, and were taken by surprise when Holmes decided otherwise.

 

[Christopher]

while Jago and Litefoot don't meet in the first four.

Did they decide to pair them off because they liked the actors' performances and sensed they'd go well together, I wonder?

I don't think Jago and Leela met in the first four either. It seemed a bit incongruous that when Leela showed up in Jago & Litefoot, both men seemed to treat her equally as an old friend, when it was Litefoot who had the bulk of the interaction with her in "Talons."