Last Classic Who Story you watched

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The worst thing that can be said about the Williams era is that its dull. And even then I'm kinda selling it short, as season 16 was decent, if anti-climactic, and I find the Doug Adams season to be hugely enjoyable, excluding Creature and Nimon, the latter of which is still so-bad-its-good so it does have that going for it. But season 15... that's a rough one. After Horror of Fang Rock, it completely derails - and I happen to like K9's debut story, too.

By comparison, Hinchcliffe and Holmes really perfected the DW formula, for me, as it balanced character and story just right. Really, no other era of the show was more influential to NuWho than these three series, and the very first with the First Doctor.

 

[Christopher]

The worst thing that can be said about the Williams era is that its dull.

Oh, I've said much worse about it. "Dull" wouldn't be so bad. The serials I mentioned are just plain bottom-of-the-barrel awful. Other producers' eras have the occasional story that just doesn't work, but for me, no producer has so many duds so close together as Graham Williams, nor has the overall feel of the show's storytelling, acting, and production values ever seemed so slapdash and cavalier, like the people involved didn't take what they were doing seriously.

But season 15... that's a rough one. After Horror of Fang Rock, it completely derails - and I happen to like K9's debut story, too.

I don't even like "Fang Rock." Finally getting to meet a Rutan was a nice idea, but it was weird to do it in a story that had nothing to do with the Sontarans and was just a generic B-movie horror plot. All the constant climbing up and down the lighthouse staircase got tedious, and the fact that the Doctor and Leela failed to save any onscreen characters' lives besides their own didn't make them come off as very effective protagonists. I know it's not the only serial where everybody dies except the leads, and that isn't automatically a dealbreaker (even the superlative "The Robots of Death" has only a couple of survivors, IIRC), but since I didn't like much else about it, that just added to my dislike.

I consider season 15 fairly weak overall, but "Image of the Fendahl" isn't bad -- I think it's going for a Quatermass feel, and it's kind of a throwback to the Hinchcliffe era -- and "The Sun Makers" is a classic Robert Holmes satire, even if I don't agree with the underlying politics. But I agree it goes totally off the rails with the last two serials.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Image of the Fendahl is just exposition scenes, with the occassional character interaction. Really, the most memorable thing about it is that it guests Benedict Cumberbatch's mom.

 

[Christopher]

All I know is, I don't remember having a particularly negative reaction to "Fendahl" like I did to so much else in season 15. It didn't stand out either positively or negatively, which by season 15 standards makes it above average.

 

[Marc]

Image of the Fendahl is just exposition scenes, with the occassional character interaction. Really, the most memorable thing about it is that it guests Benedict Cumberbatch's mom.

that was the second of her three appearances (knew about Fendahl and Time & The Ranie but she was also in the Faceless Ones).

 

[Christopher]

Wanda Ventham (Cumberbatch's mother) also had a recurring role in Gerry & Sylvia Anderson's UFO.

 

[Mr Awe]

Oh, I've said much worse about it. "Dull" wouldn't be so bad. The serials I mentioned are just plain bottom-of-the-barrel awful. Other producers' eras have the occasional story that just doesn't work, but for me, no producer has so many duds so close together as Graham Williams, nor has the overall feel of the show's storytelling, acting, and production values ever seemed so slapdash and cavalier, like the people involved didn't take what they were doing seriously.

So you have to appreciate some of the behind the scenes things going on at the BBC to fully appreciate that, yes, they weren't taking it seriously. At many points in the show's history, it was a show that producers wanted to be involved it, but that had evaporated away. Too much of a headache I'm guessing.

Hinchecliffe is on record saying he took the job not realizing that no one else wanted it. Of course, Williams was put on it against his will when the BBC wasn't happy with Hinchecliffe. JNT is really the only one who wanted to Produce DW. That's why he was told later on that if he quits the show, DW was done. Because there was no one else left in the BBC with the passion to make the show work during that entire extended time frame. There was a distinct lack of interest in Producing DW for that time except by JNT.

So, yeah, your description of their lack of care is quite accurate.

I don't even like "Fang Rock." Finally getting to meet a Rutan was a nice idea, but it was weird to do it in a story that had nothing to do with the Sontarans and was just a generic B-movie horror plot.

I liked Fang Rock quite a bit, but I think it's mostly the atmosphere. Dicks added the Rutan partway through writing as a tribute to Holmes--just figured it would tickle Holmes who had several times mentioned the long war with that species in his scripts. But, it was never intended to be a major part of the story line.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Fang Rock does work because of its claustrophobic setting and atmosphere, adding to a pretty good effort by Dicks. Its his Caves of Androzani, in my opinion, and fittingly too, as everyone in the story apart from the Doctor and the companion do die.

 

[diankra]

Timmin also survives. It's probably not deliberate that the only characters who do survive (counting regeneration as a death) are the two women.

 

[Christopher]

I've been thinking about why I don't care for the "everybody dies" ending in "Horror of Fang Rock" as much as the one in "The Caves of Androzani," and I think it's partly because "Androzani"'s ending is more in the vein of a tragedy, since the hero effectively dies at the end, whereas "Fang Rock" ends on a more upbeat and carefree note that clashes the protagonists' total failure to save even a single on-camera life.

But the main reason, I think, is that in "Androzani," the Doctor is never really put in a position of being responsible for protecting anyone besides Peri. He isn't swooping in and trying to save the world this time; rather, he and Peri just get caught up in the conflict between Jek and Morgus and do their best to survive it. But in "Fang Rock," the Doctor is trying to save the occupants of the lighthouse, and he fails totally (even though he succeeds in saving the rest of the world).

More basically, I just don't like "Fang Rock" much. I don't really care for the characters or the setting or the story. I don't know, maybe it's in the vein of a certain genre of horror movie and it works if you like that genre, but I guess I don't.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, I can't exactly admit to Fang Rock being as good as Caves, surely. I do think they're both Dicks and Holmes' best works, respectively, and they do share some similarities, least of a dead-serious Doctor.

 

[Christopher]

Well, I can't exactly admit to Fang Rock being as good as Caves, surely.

We agree on that. And don't call me Shirley.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, for the record I like Fang Rock very much. Its the most Hinchcliff-ian in overal aesthetic, apart from the ending, which is as Christopher put it, too upbeat and tonally inconsistent. Still, I do believe its Terrance Dicks' best Doctor Who story, at least since War Games, and also has great showcase of performances for most people involved. I just wish the DVD had done digitally upped the Rutans, but I won't complain that much about the best story of season 15.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

The last classic Doctor Who I watched was "The Hand of Fear" (Sarah Jane's last adventure with Doctor #4) a few months back. All 4 episodes were on YouTube.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Well, for the record I like Fang Rock very much. Its the most Hinchcliff-ian in overal aesthetic, apart from the ending, which is as Christopher put it, too upbeat and tonally inconsistent. Still, I do believe its Terrance Dicks' best Doctor Who story, at least since War Games, and also has great showcase of performances for most people involved. I just wish the DVD had done digitally upped the Rutans, but I won't complain that much about the best story of season 15.

I too enjoyed Fang Rock. By and large, I felt Tom Baker's first 4 seasons (S12-15) were quite strong overall with season 14 probably edging the others out as my favorite. It's funny though, over time, Jon Pertwee has kind of edged out Tom Baker as my favorite Doctor. Like everyone, I wish more of Troughton's work had survived.

 

[ITL]

Time I rewatched some 3rd Doctor - the first one I remember watching as a kid. Currently on episode 3 of Spearhead From Space, funky UNIT jumpsuits and all.

 

[Christopher]

By the way, it's a bit off-topic, but does anyone remember Sapphire & Steel? It was a weird, low-budget 1979-81 BritSF show starring David McCallum & Joanna Lumley as two mysterious inhuman operatives sent by "the forces controlling each dimension" to contend with malevolent unseen forces breaking through cracks in the fabric of time. It's available for free streaming on ShoutFactory TV's site, and I've just finished bingeing the series, which is in six serials ranging from 4-8 half-hour episodes apiece. While it's got its own weird flavor that's often more ghost story than sci-fi, it struck me as being in a similar vein to Doctor Who, in that it involves strangers with vastly superior knowledge showing up out of nowhere to fix problems beyond human comprehension.

And that led me to wonder what would happen if the Doctor ever ran into Sapphire & Steel. Given S&S's distaste for anything that disrupts the normal, linear flow of time, I doubt they'd think highly of the Doctor. And given that S&S tend to care less about human lives than about achieving their missions, I don't think the Doctor would have a high opinion of them either. But apparently nobody's ever done a crossover in any professional prose, comics, or audio work, except for a one-panel cameo of S&S in a Doctor Who Magazine comics story. Perhaps the show just isn't that well-remembered? I did find it somewhat mediocre, with a very low budget, unrelatable protagonists, and stories that often didn't make much sense. (Although it did make some effective and creative use of split-screen dissolves and other video FX techniques available at the time.)

 

[DS9Continuing]

Oh no, I definitely remember Sapphire & Steel. Not well - I was probably too young to remember the specifics, but I do know how it felt, and the general sense I got of it - as you say, weird and confusing but oddly fascinating.

I've been thinking for a while that once I finish my run-through of Classic Who (I'm part way through Tom Baker now, but I started at Davison and looped back around so I'm almost done), then I should track down things like Sapphire & Steel, Blake's 7, The Prisoner - classic sci-fi-ish type stuff that I have a vague recollection of but would like to know better.

Big Finish also did some audio serials of S&S - not as many as of DW obviously, but they exist - starring David Warner as Steel and Susannah Harker (wife of Paul McGann and co-starred in his version of "Shada") as Sapphire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sapphire_&_Steel_serials#Audio_serials

.

 

[Christopher]

I've been thinking for a while that once I finish my run-through of Classic Who (I'm part way through Tom Baker now, but I started at Davison and looped back around so I'm almost done), then I should track down things like Sapphire & Steel, Blake's 7, The Prisoner - classic sci-fi-ish type stuff that I have a vague recollection of but would like to know better.

I inherited my father's cherished DVD set of The Prisoner, and of course I just saw S&S on ShoutFactory, which leaves Blake's 7. I'd really like to revisit that, but finding it is the issue. I just checked my library, which carries plenty of Doctor Who DVDs, but all it has for B7 are a few of the Big Finish audios and e-books available electronically.

 

[Marc]

Blake's 7, The Prisoner

both of which BF have audio ranges.

methinks you're gonna be real busy listening after you've watched