Language frustraitions

[TerokNor]

There is something that bothers me. My English is not getting any better...even though I am here soon 5 months. That is frustraiting and I wonder, can it be that some people just cannot learn to speak a language really well, because the talent is missing?
If so, than I must belong to that group. I still miss so much vocabulary, do so many silly grammar mistakes and just cannot understand some people, when they have a bit of an accent. It annoys me!
And I have no idea what to do about it. I watch movies in English, read books in English, write with people online in English, talk with most people here in English, even think in English, but it does not help. New vocabularies only stay in my mind, when accompanied with a very meaningful experience and grammar stuff seems just to fall out of my brain again, as soon as I have read it.
I can communicate in simple everyday situations just fine, but I want to be able to have discussions, to share humor and philosophical ideas and so on. F R U S T R A I T I N G !

Has somebody ideas what else I could do to train my English?

Thanks!

TerokNor

 

[Gov Kodos]

New vocabularies only stay in my mind, when accompanied with a very meaningful experience and grammar stuff seems just to fall out of my brain again, as soon as I have read it.

There is the heart of it, actual meaningful speech, not book work. Grammar and vocabulary study is all well and good, but fluency is as much an unconscious function as a conscious one. The development of fluency is something that really doesn't work on a timetable. It happens when you stop trying and get out of the way of yourself.

That may sound uselessly vague, but I've had countless students over the years start out answering something, when asked to respond unexpectedly, with quite fluent English only to cut off the speech because they have to start thinking of how to construct the rest of the sentence. The more language they can juggle and produce in that unconscious manner the better. That takes time and varies with everyone. Don't give up.

One thing that I enjoy is keeping a speech diary. I'll make recordings of short sets of speeches answering questions that require complex answers. I'll do a set say today, then after a month another and so on. It is pretty easy to hear improvement over the months. It's rewarding to hear the progress. This is of course assuming that you continue to study.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I'm pretty similar. I can write English alright, but verbally my English is shit.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Welcome to the club. My written English is pretty decent, and I can understand it well enough. I can do rehashed speeches with enough ease (part of my job), but day-to-day conversation is still a trouble. I guess that comes only with years of daily usage.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, judging from what you've posted here, Terok Nor, it does seem to me that your English has improved. As that happens continuously it's probably not as noticeable to you. Maybe you should try to search for older posts of yours on here to see the difference.
It also takes a while to master a language, you're already doing a lot of things that will help but it'll probably take years. But if you stay with the program (so to speak) you'll see improvements.
What Gov Kodos says is also good advice. Don't try to hard. I never had the problem with English because it basically just came to me but I always had a lot of trouble speaking French, not because of the pronunciation (which was good enough) but because I kept thinking about how to say things and how to construct sentences and all that. Then, one night at a party, I struck up a conversation with some Cameroonese while being slightly drunk and suddenly I could actually speak it fluently. It wasn't free of mistakes but the others could understand me well enough and that's what matters. So, in short, don't overthink it and just let it flow. Don't try to just translate exactly what you would say in German into English but rather think what you want to say in English and then say it.

Also, it's normal not to be able to understand New Zealanders. Don't worry about that.

Accents can be tricky. You just have to be exposed to them over a longer period to get the hang of them in some cases. English has just very many. I wouldn't take that so hard. There are, after all, German accents I'd have serious trouble understanding, too.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Good point. Alcohol improves my foreign languages skills, too.

Cute girls, even more so.

 

[Shaytan]

With alcohol, I can speak tagalog too !

I don't try to speak a perfect English anymore. I've decided to be a perfect French with perfect French accent instead
The most important is to be able to communicate the ideas I want to communicate, even if it's not perfect.

 

[Beagleman]

Good point. Alcohol improves my foreign languages skills, too.

Cute girls, even more so.

Same with me!
I think my english is pretty decent but it's a lot better at some random party than in class or some formal meeting.

 

[ThankQ]

Well, someone has to say it. You ESL (ETL, EFL) guys often have a better command of usage rules than native speakers (in the US anyway, I know the Brits and the Aussies have their backwoods, too). As for grammar, well, as long as the message you're trying to communicate is getting across, grammar has been satisfied.

One thing is for sure, I don't envy you all the idioms you have to learn to have a 10-minute conversation.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I am afraid that I do not have any helpful suggestions for you, TerokNor, but I sure do commend and admire you for being able to communicate in a second language as well as you already do! And I encourage you to continue on and not be discouraged!

As others have said, I bet your improvements are gradual, such that you are not even noticing your progress. I would also think that the more conversations you can have in which you can use your new vocabulary, the better.

 

[IndyJones]

SNIP

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand a word of that.

 

[Canadave]

Welcome to the club. My written English is pretty decent, and I can understand it well enough. I can do rehashed speeches with enough ease (part of my job), but day-to-day conversation is still a trouble. I guess that comes only with years of daily usage.

I've seen you say this once or twice before, and it's always shocked me. From the way you write, I'd assume you were a native English speaker if I didn't know who you were.

 

[Amaris]

Welcome to the club. My written English is pretty decent, and I can understand it well enough. I can do rehashed speeches with enough ease (part of my job), but day-to-day conversation is still a trouble. I guess that comes only with years of daily usage.

I've seen you say this once or twice before, and it's always shocked me. From the way you write, I'd assume you were a native English speaker if I didn't know who you were.

(whispers) He's Eye-talian.

 

[ares93]

Well, I used to have this great manc accent i picked up from my girlfriend, her mother and grandparents. But unfortunately, I spent way too much time back home and managed to pick up a russian/slavic accent. So now i sound like a russian raised in Manchester. That's one awful combination. Strangely, when I'm tired, I revert back to manc....

 

[auntiehill]

There is something that bothers me. My English is not getting any better...even though I am here soon 5 months. That is frustraiting and I wonder, can it be that some people just cannot learn to speak a language really well, because the talent is missing?
If so, than I must belong to that group. I still miss so much vocabulary, do so many silly grammar mistakes and just cannot understand some people, when they have a bit of an accent. It annoys me!
And I have no idea what to do about it. I watch movies in English, read books in English, write with people online in English, talk with most people here in English, even think in English, but it does not help. New vocabularies only stay in my mind, when accompanied with a very meaningful experience and grammar stuff seems just to fall out of my brain again, as soon as I have read it.
I can communicate in simple everyday situations just fine, but I want to be able to have discussions, to share humor and philosophical ideas and so on. F R U S T R A I T I N G !

Has somebody ideas what else I could do to train my English?

Thanks!

TerokNor

Well, if it means anything to you, I deal with ESL writers on an almost daily basis, and I think you are doing very well. Of course, right now, you only see your limits or what you're lacking, but your English is really not bad at all. I've seen (sadly enough) MANY native speakers with far worse language skills than what you've demonstrated here.

My only suggestions are things I'm sure you've already thought of: practice, practice, practice. Hear it, read it, use it; there's no substitute for experience.

 

[smiki]

...Strangely, when I'm tired, I revert back to manc....

Exactly, this is what the others are talking about. When you drop the whole conscious effort of constantly trying to fully understand and be aware of what you're doing with your tongue and mind, the composition, the form, the rules, the words, and the technique required to speak another language and just let it flow without restraints of trying to be aware of it all, or without restraints because you might be worried you may make a mistake, it just goes smoother. Surprising, but true.

Anyway, accents can be a funny thing.
I myself have been told by my English teacher back in high school that I have an ever so slight Irish accent, which is odd, because, well, I'm from Serbia and have never been to Ireland.

It's not that I'm complaining though, an Irish accent is cool.

As far as for the OP, just continue with what you've been doing so far, expose yourself to English as much as possible, listen, read, talk, write, and I'm certain progress will come. To be honest, your English is quite good as it is already.

As my German teacher used to say: "Übung macht den Meister."

 

[iguana_tonante]

Welcome to the club. My written English is pretty decent, and I can understand it well enough. I can do rehashed speeches with enough ease (part of my job), but day-to-day conversation is still a trouble. I guess that comes only with years of daily usage.

I've seen you say this once or twice before, and it's always shocked me. From the way you write, I'd assume you were a native English speaker if I didn't know who you were.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it very much. But unfortunately, my proficiency with spoken English is not on par with my writing skills. Plus, there's the whole "speaking like a character from the Sopranos" thing that kind of undermines my professorial attitude...

 

[TerokNor]

Thanks for the advice. Will try (or better not try ) it, but just talk and practice. The spoken language diary sounds good too.What kind of questions do you ask yourself Gov Kodos? Things like: Are there more universes besides ours? Where do I want to be in 5 years?
I sometimes try to answer questions like that just thinking in English, but never recorded the answers so far.

And it is interessting that some of you other ESL speakers have the same problem, because I always get the impression when reading "you", that your English must be as good as that of a native speaker.

By the way accent...I guess I have lost most of mine. People not always guess correctly where I am from, like they did before. Though the stupid thing is, now many of them say, they have never heard an accent like that before, before they ask where I am from. Oh my, I hope I doesn´t sound to strange. Even other German don´t recognize me... one though I am from Spain. Oh well... whatever. *L*

TerokNor

P.S. :P at IndyJones

 

[Count Zero]

Plus, there's the whole "speaking like a character from the Sopranos" thing that kind of undermines my professorial attitude...

I've always thought that there aren't enough blackmailing and protection money schemes going on in the physics community.

 

[Me-Ike]

^ Oh, market niche!

Keep at it, TerokNor, luckily you've chosen to learn the one language with an overabundance of material on- and offline. It takes patience but with English there are enough opportunities to practice writing, listening and speaking.