Lake Silencio and the War Doctor, Regeneration Issues...
- Thread starter TJ Sinclair
- Start date
I saw no hints of that, if anything he was always pressed to tell people that Eccleston was the ninth Doctor and Tennant was the 10th. It's Moffat who came along and confused the whole issue of the Doctor's regenerations.
RTD did say in an interview that he was never a fan of limiting regenerations and said he always found it the regeneration limit somehow permeated into fandom to the point that it's one thing everyone knows, yet everyone forgot or ignored the Third Doctor talking about his age being over a thousand.
And although the 507 thing from SJA was largely a joke, even Moffat expressed his approval it and his desire to forget the regeneration limit. He only brought it back because he found a way to make it work for the purposes of Time of the Doctor's story.
Actually, the RTD era never made any mention in the show itself to which particular incarnation the Doctor was on. Maybe RTD himself in interviews or behind the scenes stuff might have said "Ninth Doctor" or "Tenth Doctor" be we all do that. Indeed, it wasn't until Moffat took over that the show itself began to be littered with references to Matt Smith being the Eleventh Doctor, which in the end worked to their disadvantage because towards the end of Smith's run we reveal "oh, wait he's actually the twelfth," and then in his finale "hold up again, he's really the thirteenth."
But the show itself never once identified Eccleston as the Ninth Doctor, nor Tennant as the Tenth. Sure in the real world when asked directly, RTD stated that Eccleston was the Ninth, but not once in any of Eccleston's 13 episodes is he referred to as the Ninth Doctor. Compare that to Smith, who has his very first episode title reflecting his numerical designation and even states before his first season ends (in The Lodger) "I'm the Eleventh."
In the end though Smith's Doctor was the 13th, so Moffat went back on that.
People quickly forget that as far back as "The Five Doctors", the high council proposed giving the Master (who was already AT LEAST one incarnation beyond his alloted thirteen) a new regeneration cycle; to which the Master was more intrigued that they'd do something like that for him, moreso than whether or not it was possible at ALL. The whole idea of granting additional regenerations is nothing new, but the circumstances under which it is done was pretty nebulous until the Doctor, the Master (and arguably Rassilon) put the issue to rest in the context of the current show.
Mark
Mark
I don't see how it was to any disadvantage, since the whole point was that he was in denial of the War Doctor's existence. He was "the man who forgets"...and does it deliberately. In a way it makes sense that this was the first incarnation to make any show of his number as part of his identity, since it helped facilitate that dissociation. And the aborted "Journey's End" regeneration doesn't make Smith the thirteenth incarnation— Tennant wasn't a new incarnation after that, he'd just used up a regeneration. Unless you're counting the DoctorDonna as a proper incarnation, which I suppose you could, but I'd say it's a separate thing.
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When he first meets Sarah Jane as ten he tells her he's regenerated half a dozen times, which providing she has forgotten meeting 5 in the 5 doctors , works out as him telling her he's the 10th
I get the impression that regeneration isn't a sure fire thing with Timelords.
I think I read somewhere that being inside a TARDIS helps the process along.
Look at the Doctors:
First: Regen inside his TARDIS
Second: Force to regen by the Timelords. An outside force was in control.
Third and Fourth: Outside forces (K'anpo and The Watcher) assist the Doctor in regenerating.
Fifth and Sixth: Both were insides their TARDIS when they regened.
Seventh: Was in a morgue, and didn't regen until several hours after he died.
Eighth: Regen was activated by the Elixer of Karn
War, Ninth, and Tenth were all in their TARDIS when the regen happened.
Eleventh: Regen was activated by the Timelords.
Add the Master who regened from Derek Jacobi to Jon Simm, and Romana in the classic series; both of which regened in the Doctor's TARDIS.
Plus there are those times when the Doctor is in doubt that he would regenerate from damage.
I think I read somewhere that being inside a TARDIS helps the process along.
Look at the Doctors:
First: Regen inside his TARDIS
Second: Force to regen by the Timelords. An outside force was in control.
Third and Fourth: Outside forces (K'anpo and The Watcher) assist the Doctor in regenerating.
Fifth and Sixth: Both were insides their TARDIS when they regened.
Seventh: Was in a morgue, and didn't regen until several hours after he died.
Eighth: Regen was activated by the Elixer of Karn
War, Ninth, and Tenth were all in their TARDIS when the regen happened.
Eleventh: Regen was activated by the Timelords.
Add the Master who regened from Derek Jacobi to Jon Simm, and Romana in the classic series; both of which regened in the Doctor's TARDIS.
Plus there are those times when the Doctor is in doubt that he would regenerate from damage.
Although it hasn't been directly mentioned again, in The Power Of The Daleks the Doctor told Ben and Polly his "renewal" was "part of the TARDIS."
Quite, but only when specifically asked. ("Regeneration?" "Fourth.") He didn't go around introducing himself "the Fifth Doctor" or "Five" as fans do.
Exactly. To himself.
"I've had many faces, many lives. I don't admit to all of them. There's one life I've tried very hard to forget..."
"Pretending you didn't exist, keeping you a secret, even from myself..."
Either that was some very deft foreshadowing or it was the writers who forgot -unless they were purposely ignoring the very brief meeting in The Five Doctors. In any case, Ten's statement is now retrospectively correct.
Saying you've regenerated "ha;f a dozen" times has more dramatic poignancy than an exact number that may or may not be six. :P
You could argue that regeneration under normal - i.e. age or self-triggered - circumstances would be a safe and regular experience, doing so after trauma and PROBABLY outside of a TARDIS or in the presence of other Galllifreyans in some capacity would not be.
And the Fifth Doctor identifying himself as the fourth regeneration of his first self was cutely recalled just a few weeks ago when the General told the Doctor he was on his own tenth regeneration, instead of saying that he was "The Eleventh General". Sounds more proper to say he was on his tenth regeneration (of twelve obviously) than eleventh life (of potentially thirteen), somehow. Again. I don't believe that Time Lords treat their lives as arcade games.
One wonders what the Doctor would have done if the General had told him that he was on his final regeneration. Shot one of the peons instead?
Mark
You could argue that regeneration under normal - i.e. age or self-triggered - circumstances would be a safe and regular experience, doing so after trauma and PROBABLY outside of a TARDIS or in the presence of other Galllifreyans in some capacity would not be.
And the Fifth Doctor identifying himself as the fourth regeneration of his first self was cutely recalled just a few weeks ago when the General told the Doctor he was on his own tenth regeneration, instead of saying that he was "The Eleventh General". Sounds more proper to say he was on his tenth regeneration (of twelve obviously) than eleventh life (of potentially thirteen), somehow. Again. I don't believe that Time Lords treat their lives as arcade games.
One wonders what the Doctor would have done if the General had told him that he was on his final regeneration. Shot one of the peons instead?
Mark
Surely depend on where it happens - in the season finale - the General is up and about in minutes and nobody treats the regeneration as anything to be concerned about.