Lack of Redundancy and warp capable lifeboats in Trek

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by sciquest2525, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Samuel

    Samuel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Part of the "technological highway" in the Honourverse is the move from energy weapons being the "big guns" of starship combat to complete reliance on "missile duels".
     
  2. sciquest2525

    sciquest2525 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Phasers are very long ranged but substitute photon/quantum/transphasic torpedo duels for missile duels and you have Star Trek's situation as torpedoes greatly outrange phasers.

    TNG Tech Manual mentions active torpedo countermeasures, artificial gravity produced shields and mentions phasers being lightspeed with 300,000 kilometers range while torpedoes have much longer range and are faster than light.

    This does not match with TOS which had FTL phasers.

    For today and the future, we must assume degredation of targeting sensors by fast maneuvers( much faster than previously shown on ST), sensor countermeasures or SCM, the ST equivalent of ECM/IRCM, sensor decoys launched from torpedo/probe tubes, active CIWS phasers and minitorpedeoes, shields, armored hulls with ablative armor and superstrength hull armor, internal subdivision into armored compartments having armored bulkheads, decks and overhead and internal force fields to seal holes and structural integral fields reinforcing hull and internal armor.

    Armor does not consume power but shields, SIF and internal force fields do.

    Shields rely at least partially on reflection as well as resistance to penetration.

    Phaser and torpedo mounts need to cover a spherical 360 field of fire to be effective and you need some super phaser mounts ala Reliant in ST: TWOK for vey high power energy weapon with ranges and destructiveness equal to torpedoes but requiring so much power that power for shields, propulsion, standard phasers is so much less that COs will be careful of husbanding their power resources when deciding to use or not to use super phasers.

    ST: Discovery is doing better with these issues of more realistic combat scenes.

    There is no reason why fusion reactors cannot power warp engines as engines only care that the power comes in a common usable form and that MAM reactions do not have something special about their power output that makes them majically integral to warp field generation.
    This lines up with Doomsday Machine that chased Enterprise operating on impulse power which was good for FTL speeds, though with such high impulse power fuel usage that the ship had only hours of power left.

    Perhaps the Federation should buy some of Larry Niven's Pupeteer General Products hulls for better passive defenses or Ringworld foundation material.
     
  3. Samuel

    Samuel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TOS was vague enough that it took me forever to understand the differences between deflector screens, shields, deflector shields, force shields, and force fields
     
  4. sciquest2525

    sciquest2525 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    TOS was vague but after awhile you could figure things out.
    TNG Tech Manual helped but ran into problems with power output understated by many orders of magnitude, warp factor speeds being too small to go anywhere fast enough for story requirements, subspace radio being so fast in TNG and so slow in episodes of TOS which had Enterprise waiting three weeks for subspace radio messages to reach Starfleet Command while all TNG episodes had real time communication, separated saucer capable of only sublight impulse drive while all on board shuttles had warp drive.

    All these problems were caused by errors made by hard working and well intentioned production people on demanding schedules while trying to figure out ST universe for writer's bible and probably individual episodes as well.

    So redundancy of ship systems, realistic warp drive speeds and subspace radio speeds, impact of Alcubierre warp theory in real world on Trek, SCM, CIWS, FTL lifeboats and super phasers are needed to be changed for future productions.

    I don't think it will happen but one can hope.
     
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  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I'm definitely hoping for the exact opposite.

    Star Trek has rules. The rules are different from those of the real world where real world applies, which is basically nowhere. Changing the rules would make it no longer Star Trek.

    Of course, the rules of Star Trek are those things on screen, not those uttered backstage. So TNG always had powerful warp phasers, as we could easily see, and a warp-capable saucer section, as we heard told, and kept up the good tradition of warp-capable shuttlecraft and ill-defined lifepods. And no CIWS or other such caveman tech, because shields render it irrelevant and anachronistic, as can easily be seen.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  6. sciquest2525

    sciquest2525 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I disagree. The ST rules were wrong and need to be corrected and updated. That's why you have holograms in ST: Discovery and much more complex displays on the bridge and much better special effects.
    Any SF program will eventually find some of it's elements dated and future productions will reflect that. As to ST's programs, one can hope things will be updated in the films, televisions, video games and canonical nonfiction books like future tech manuals.
     
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  7. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm in general agreement that StarFleet lacks lot of redundancies.

    In my Head Canon / Writers Guide, I basically fix all of that.
     
  8. oberth

    oberth Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    how many flatbeds does your headcanon need to be transported? :devil:
     
  9. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Warp plasma, do fusion reactors create it?
     
  10. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commander Red Shirt

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    As many as needed!

    But in all seriousness, I have 567 pages currently for a Writers Universe Guide, accompanying Excel Spread Sheet for my new Warp Scale which is just the TNG Warp Scale with anything past Warp 9 using the TNG formula and expanding it onto infinity. I literally lop off the stupid hand drawn curve that was written in by the TNG writers guide which was the dumbest thing ever. They had a perfectly good formula, but didn't want to expand on it because of fear of viewer stupidity with ever increasing numbers. Sci-Fi / Star Trek fans aren't that dumb. We don't need to be treated with kid gloves.

    I have tons of related images to give the Creative Staff an idea of what I want for all the props costume, ship designs, etc.

    I have most everything in universe figured out and it's set at the start of the 26th century with a nice chunky 122 year gap between the end of ST:Nemesis and the beginning of my new Multi-Show Universe to mimic the legendary 3 shows of the TNG era and the sad excuse of a show that Enterprise was.

    I've designed my in show Universe to thrive and live for many seasons over many Shows and show aspects inside and out of StarFleet.
     
  11. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    Which doesn´t sound to complicated to do...even without a starbase. I think they could have done that with the Delta Flyer.
     
  12. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought he said it was a series of spare parts rather than a complete core?
     
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, lets look at power.
    Main m/am reactor produces say... 90 jigawatts..
    a secondary m/am reactor, smaller, produces lets say 40 jigawatts.
    and a fusion reactor produces, say.. 12 Jigawats.

    On main power, you can get up to warp 8, say something happens, there's a crack on the lining in the main core, not fixable without a spare/space dock. then you switch to the back up reactor, but at only 40 Jigawats, you may get up to warp 4.. good to get you from a nearby system. Now say that back up reactor goes down, or like has happened to most of us.. Tire gets a hole, go to your spare.. its flat.. >_< Your now on Fusion power. To me in my "Head Cannon" ( stupid term.. but descriptive) at 12 jigawatts, you may get the ship FTL, maybe warp 2. Hope your only in the next system, or other ship nearby.

    Now.. SPARES! To me, you have a Main reactor, hooked up providing power.. a secondary reactor, hooked up, just have to turn on the tap to the antimatter. and in some cargo bay.. ANOTHER Backup reactor! its in a box in the corner, needs to be un boxed, and the secondary reactor removed, or whatever part removed. I mean, you don't go 100's of light years away without having at least 1 spare for EVERYTHING! including the main reactor. In the TNG Manuel, they had a device that turned hydrogen into antimatter, not to terribly efficient, but doable.

    So, to complement most of these posts, yes, you need a secodary reactor, and spare parts. may not be as big and powerful as the main one, but itll get you home. and with a m/am reactor, it can be a small enough to power a danube class. So all you need is a decent sized cargo bay to house a spare.