Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of production'
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Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
If a game with a strong character & narrative arc can support both genders, like Mass Effect, with minimal additional work? Great. When you get something like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed II where changing the gender would require significant changes (gender-swaps of other characters), it's hard to see how that would be worth the investment.
So if females aren't entertained by playing guys, why would companies want to throw away their existing audience of guys (who presumably feel the same way and don't want to play girls)? Game developers and release slots are a finite resource, and unless they're going to make more money by having female characters than male, it's a losing proposition.
If a game with a strong character & narrative arc can support both genders, like Mass Effect, with minimal additional work? Great. When you get something like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed II where changing the gender would require significant changes (gender-swaps of other characters), it's hard to see how that would be worth the investment.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Mass Effect is a great example for this where a company can write a story where the gender is not important and the development team took care to provide as many options as possible so gamers (male and female).
In fact i have a close female friend who's not much of a gamer but she's a massive ME fan also due to reasons mentioned above (you should see her kick ass as female Sheperd and squeal in joy when she defeats the enemies
).
So it's down to the developers to broaden their horizon and publish games that have appeal to both genders or write games where guys wouldn't care they play a girl because the game is good (the new Tomb Raider for example).
I also don't believe gamers are misogynistic to begin with, merely immature which unfortunately gets amplified through the anonymity of the internet where they can blurt out the most insane stuff without fear of repercussions.
Mass Effect is a great example for this where a company can write a story where the gender is not important and the development team took care to provide as many options as possible so gamers (male and female).
In fact i have a close female friend who's not much of a gamer but she's a massive ME fan also due to reasons mentioned above (you should see her kick ass as female Sheperd and squeal in joy when she defeats the enemies
).So it's down to the developers to broaden their horizon and publish games that have appeal to both genders or write games where guys wouldn't care they play a girl because the game is good (the new Tomb Raider for example).
I also don't believe gamers are misogynistic to begin with, merely immature which unfortunately gets amplified through the anonymity of the internet where they can blurt out the most insane stuff without fear of repercussions.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Holy straw man.
I do play games with male protagonists and can enjoy them. That doesn't mean I and many other female gamers wouldn't prefer a little more balanced representation of women in video games.
Your reasoning is absurd.
Holy straw man.
I do play games with male protagonists and can enjoy them. That doesn't mean I and many other female gamers wouldn't prefer a little more balanced representation of women in video games.
Your reasoning is absurd.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Let's also be honest here: there are very few games where the player character's gender matters at all to the story. We just get a white dude as default because that's who the bean counters think they should be appealing to.
Let's also be honest here: there are very few games where the player character's gender matters at all to the story. We just get a white dude as default because that's who the bean counters think they should be appealing to.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
The "straw man" would be FPAlpha's, then. I don't actually think that's the case (hence why that sentence starts with a conditional); but FPAlpha posited that as a fact. And if it is, then I'd like to know why the converse isn't.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
This. A thousand times this. I honestly don't see how an Assassin's Creed wouldn't be able to achieve this. Just give people the option and people will make their own adventures. Bioware has shown that they can leave the option and still make great stories.
This. A thousand times this. I honestly don't see how an Assassin's Creed wouldn't be able to achieve this. Just give people the option and people will make their own adventures. Bioware has shown that they can leave the option and still make great stories.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Bioware shows that it can be done, yes; but not every story lends itself to that.
(And just to show that I'm not giving Ubisoft/AC a pass for whatever reason: the original Assassin's Creed by itself would've worked regardless of Altair's gender, though the sequels make that trickier or impossible. Black Flag would have required a little more work - not just the epilogue - but I think it would have been tweaking of details rather than a wholesale plot replacement like II and III.)
Bioware also didn't include Shepard's family, and treated romance as an afterthought. Compare that to Assassin's Creed II (where the romance with Caterina Sforza is a key driver of the plot in the second half of the game) or III (the story wouldn't work at all if Haytham was female).
Bioware shows that it can be done, yes; but not every story lends itself to that.
(And just to show that I'm not giving Ubisoft/AC a pass for whatever reason: the original Assassin's Creed by itself would've worked regardless of Altair's gender, though the sequels make that trickier or impossible. Black Flag would have required a little more work - not just the epilogue - but I think it would have been tweaking of details rather than a wholesale plot replacement like II and III.)
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
That kind of goes without saying though. Yes, not every story can lend itself to it, but to close the door on it before it's even open? That's essentially what Ubisoft is doing. They're shrugging it all off. Nobody is saying they have to do it, but rather for them to acknowledge the possibility rather than outright dismissal.
First game, you're right. That could have worked. Haven't played Black Flag yet, though I do have it in my backlog. That one I think would require more stretching in terms of the pirate theme.
That kind of goes without saying though. Yes, not every story can lend itself to it, but to close the door on it before it's even open? That's essentially what Ubisoft is doing. They're shrugging it all off. Nobody is saying they have to do it, but rather for them to acknowledge the possibility rather than outright dismissal.
First game, you're right. That could have worked. Haven't played Black Flag yet, though I do have it in my backlog. That one I think would require more stretching in terms of the pirate theme.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Not true, some portions are dependent on your chosen back story, but they are there.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
DA and ME are the *gold standard* of NOT treating Romance as an afterthought. Just following a pre-written character is about as involving as mud. People go bonkers for Bioware games precisely because they *don't* treat romance as an afterthought. When I think Bioware I immediately think of the romance options. AssCreed, while being a series I very much love, is about the last game I'd hold up by comparison for it's involving romance options. Sheesh.
DA and ME are the *gold standard* of NOT treating Romance as an afterthought. Just following a pre-written character is about as involving as mud. People go bonkers for Bioware games precisely because they *don't* treat romance as an afterthought. When I think Bioware I immediately think of the romance options. AssCreed, while being a series I very much love, is about the last game I'd hold up by comparison for it's involving romance options. Sheesh.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Dragon Age I'd agree with you. The romance actually affects the plot, at least in Origins. But you could drop it entirely from Mass Effect, and there'd be no differences in the plot or in your party members. That certainly feels like a bolted-on afterthought to me.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
"Optional" and "afterthought" are different words with different meanings. Final Fantasy games are famous for having lots of optional side quests, and yet they aren't generally considered afterthoughts.
"Optional" and "afterthought" are different words with different meanings. Final Fantasy games are famous for having lots of optional side quests, and yet they aren't generally considered afterthoughts.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
That's pretty nonsensical. Gamers and the gaming industry are only paying attention to diversity issues because they've become very prominent in gaming media, in response to the work of particular activists like Sarkeesian but also many others before her. Admonishments to "focus on what unites us instead of what divides us" read like hollow cheerleading rather than a call to continue the positive trend. Complacency is not the answer.
That's pretty nonsensical. Gamers and the gaming industry are only paying attention to diversity issues because they've become very prominent in gaming media, in response to the work of particular activists like Sarkeesian but also many others before her. Admonishments to "focus on what unites us instead of what divides us" read like hollow cheerleading rather than a call to continue the positive trend. Complacency is not the answer.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
^ I don't get that from her at all, she doesn't propose complacency but rather continued awareness of the issue as well as continued strive for improvement.
Remembering that, for the most part, participants in this debate share a love for their hobby is not a bad thing - everyone wants video games to get better, inclusiveness is - in part - one aspect of that.
^ I don't get that from her at all, she doesn't propose complacency but rather continued awareness of the issue as well as continued strive for improvement.
Remembering that, for the most part, participants in this debate share a love for their hobby is not a bad thing - everyone wants video games to get better, inclusiveness is - in part - one aspect of that.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
I don't think "everyone" wants video games to get better in terms of being inclusive. In fact, there is ample evidence, even in this thread, to the contrary.
I don't think "everyone" wants video games to get better in terms of being inclusive. In fact, there is ample evidence, even in this thread, to the contrary.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
Sometimes (at least when it comes to game mechanics) what feels like an afterthought is a case of the team not being able to meet the deadline.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
You can't say the words 'Mass' or 'Effect' around me without my mind *immediately* leaping to Shepard and Liara. Liara is more or less my definition of 'romance in gaming'. If ME didn't exist, I'd basically think romance wasn't really something that games could do. She's no afterthough. Her final goodbye to Shepard in ME3 is one of my favourite moments in all of gaming, period.
You can't say the words 'Mass' or 'Effect' around me without my mind *immediately* leaping to Shepard and Liara. Liara is more or less my definition of 'romance in gaming'. If ME didn't exist, I'd basically think romance wasn't really something that games could do. She's no afterthough. Her final goodbye to Shepard in ME3 is one of my favourite moments in all of gaming, period.
Re: Lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed? 'Reality of producti
The only good excuse they could have is "We didn't think of it during initial design and at this point we don't have the budget to go back and put a female character in. Our bad. We will look into for future versions."
Other than that, there is no reason they couldn't put a female character in.
The only good excuse they could have is "We didn't think of it during initial design and at this point we don't have the budget to go back and put a female character in. Our bad. We will look into for future versions."
Other than that, there is no reason they couldn't put a female character in.
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