That isn't at all how that works...
"Krypton" coming to SyFy from David Goyer
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
Rotten Tomatoes is just about the most useless thing that has ever existed.
^ Speaking of enthusiasm, I liked that a good deal better than I expected to, based on the iffy premise and the discouraging reviews. Some decent sci-fi worldbuilding sweetened with the Superman mythos. I was intrigued by the personal and political dynamics among the characters (and as a couple of the reviews noted, the women look to be pretty much the show's biggest strength, though Seg is all right so far too). I was interested enough that I wasn't ready for the hour (or more like 45 minutes -- what was up with that?) to end, and I'm unexpectedly eager for the next episode.
I'm talking about the critica score. Audience numbers can be manipulated.
So far, I rather like Krypton. It's got a strong cast, interesting worldbuilding, and great production design and values, and the story's pretty engaging so far. I guess there are aspects of the hero's situation and setup that are a bit familiar and formulaic, but the execution was effective.
I like the parallels in Val-El's story -- like his great-grandson Jor-El, he tries to warn the rulers of Krypton of a threat to the planet's survival and they refuse to listen. Except it's a more extreme, theocratic dictatorship, which feels pretty timely.
The episode ended surprisingly early, just 48 minutes into the hour. Was this a limited-commercials airing? It didn't seem that way. Anyway, whatever its length, the pilot left a lot of unanswered questions. How does Adam Strange know about this threat in the past? How did he get back there? How does he have Superman's cape? What's happened to Superman that he doesn't need it anymore? (Also, did they need to show Adam with a pack of cigarettes? I don't care for the resurgence of images of smoking in recent productions.)
A number of aspects of the portrayal of Krypton and the production design are reminiscent of Man of Steel -- the swirly-textured version of the House of El symbol seen in some instances, the architecture of the Fortress walls, the Genesis Chamber (though that also draws on John Byrne's post-Crisis version of Krypton). But there were definitely elements of other incarnations too, like the more classic version of the El sigil on the capes -- and the quotes of the John Williams theme, which I somehow found more effective here than in other productions that have quoted it, perhaps because the composer handled it with more subtlety this time.
One other formulaic or cliched element that the show embraces wholeheartedly: the cliche that aliens are always British. Not that I mind watching a bunch of British actors perform in their proper accents, but it's a weird contrivance if you think about it (so probably best not to think about it). Then again, I suppose we've seen Jor-El and other Kryptonians played by English actors, or at least with English accents, before. Superman: The Movie and Superman II started the trend, with most of the Kryptonians played by actors like Susannah York, Terrence Stamp, and Sarah Douglas, and with Marlon Brando affecting an English accent. Lois & Clark had David Warner as Jor-El, and Smallville had Stamp's voice and Julian Sands as Jor-El and Callum Blue as Zod. Superman: TAS had mostly American-accented Kryptonians, but it did have Finola Hughes as Lara. Man of Steel had New Zealander Russell Crowe as Jor-El, not English but close. (Heck, these days, lots of aliens have Australian or NZ accents too.) Supergirl had Chris Vance as Non, though most of its other Kryptonian actors have had American accents.
There's also the fact that the show's filmed in Belfast, apparently, so it makes sense that most of their actors would be from the British Isles.
I like the parallels in Val-El's story -- like his great-grandson Jor-El, he tries to warn the rulers of Krypton of a threat to the planet's survival and they refuse to listen. Except it's a more extreme, theocratic dictatorship, which feels pretty timely.
The episode ended surprisingly early, just 48 minutes into the hour. Was this a limited-commercials airing? It didn't seem that way. Anyway, whatever its length, the pilot left a lot of unanswered questions. How does Adam Strange know about this threat in the past? How did he get back there? How does he have Superman's cape? What's happened to Superman that he doesn't need it anymore? (Also, did they need to show Adam with a pack of cigarettes? I don't care for the resurgence of images of smoking in recent productions.)
A number of aspects of the portrayal of Krypton and the production design are reminiscent of Man of Steel -- the swirly-textured version of the House of El symbol seen in some instances, the architecture of the Fortress walls, the Genesis Chamber (though that also draws on John Byrne's post-Crisis version of Krypton). But there were definitely elements of other incarnations too, like the more classic version of the El sigil on the capes -- and the quotes of the John Williams theme, which I somehow found more effective here than in other productions that have quoted it, perhaps because the composer handled it with more subtlety this time.
One other formulaic or cliched element that the show embraces wholeheartedly: the cliche that aliens are always British. Not that I mind watching a bunch of British actors perform in their proper accents, but it's a weird contrivance if you think about it (so probably best not to think about it). Then again, I suppose we've seen Jor-El and other Kryptonians played by English actors, or at least with English accents, before. Superman: The Movie and Superman II started the trend, with most of the Kryptonians played by actors like Susannah York, Terrence Stamp, and Sarah Douglas, and with Marlon Brando affecting an English accent. Lois & Clark had David Warner as Jor-El, and Smallville had Stamp's voice and Julian Sands as Jor-El and Callum Blue as Zod. Superman: TAS had mostly American-accented Kryptonians, but it did have Finola Hughes as Lara. Man of Steel had New Zealander Russell Crowe as Jor-El, not English but close. (Heck, these days, lots of aliens have Australian or NZ accents too.) Supergirl had Chris Vance as Non, though most of its other Kryptonian actors have had American accents.
There's also the fact that the show's filmed in Belfast, apparently, so it makes sense that most of their actors would be from the British Isles.
No, it's not.
The "critics' score" part of the site is meaningless (since critics' opinions are meaningless) and the "audience score" part of the site is easily manipulatable and therefore not a good indicator of anything.
Oh, that's nonsense. Critics -- good ones, anyway -- offer valuable, knowledgeable perspective and insight. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them (hell, they often don't agree with each other), but there's no reason for an intelligent person to slag them off categorically, either. I usually figure folks who do that secretly lack confidence in their own taste, and are just covering up their insecurity with populist scorn for the "elite" reviewers who accurately peg their faves as crap.
It really isn't.
Relying on critics' opinions in terms of determining the quality of something is a perfect example of the George S. Patton quote "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking".
I personally could do without having to connect it to modern earth and Superman but whatev's. The show has a pretty good look even though it always seems to be nighttime. It's interesting enough to check out again though after one episode I'm not actually sure if it's good or not, depends where it goes from here but it's a promising start. It has a bit of a "Dune" vibe to me at the moment.
It's a shame Paula Malcomson didn't last longer, I've always liked her.
It's a shame Paula Malcomson didn't last longer, I've always liked her.
I thought it was awful and stupid: poorly structured, implausible, hyped-up, ham-fisted melodrama.
All together now:
"Earth Angel, Earth Angel, please be mine...."
All together now:
"Earth Angel, Earth Angel, please be mine...."
Some thoughts on the pilot.
Overall, as a big Superman fan, I thought it was ok, though it didn't blow me away.
I actually do see the need to have some sort of connection to Superman. Do we really care about Superman's grandfather's angst without it?
It would be like a TV show about Perry White's days as a cub reporter--um, who cares?
Superman being a key here is a nice thing, and if we're lucky, he'll make an appearance if the show is successful enough.
What I do have an issue with is how a society advanced enough for interstellar travel can have such a primitive class structure. While I can see some families being more prominent than others, the system we see on Krypton is medieval.
There is no reason to believe that your intelligence dictates your class status, which means that unranked people are no less intelligent than ranked people. If that's true, then unranked people have the brain power to contribute to society in many ways, and without tapping into that resource, it seems unlikely that Krypton could be that advanced.
I also wonder if Rao is Brainiac in disguise.
The Kryptonian council also sounds like flat earthers. A society based on science would not murder someone for having a scientific theory.
Though Christopher Reeve is the ultimate Superman, I felt that Donner/Puzo made a huge mistake in how they portrayed Krypton as this cold, lifeless society.
I still think it should be more like in the cartoon or before the Reeve movies--a good society, with good people. That way, Krypton's destruction has a real loss.
Overall, as a big Superman fan, I thought it was ok, though it didn't blow me away.
I actually do see the need to have some sort of connection to Superman. Do we really care about Superman's grandfather's angst without it?
It would be like a TV show about Perry White's days as a cub reporter--um, who cares?
Superman being a key here is a nice thing, and if we're lucky, he'll make an appearance if the show is successful enough.
What I do have an issue with is how a society advanced enough for interstellar travel can have such a primitive class structure. While I can see some families being more prominent than others, the system we see on Krypton is medieval.
There is no reason to believe that your intelligence dictates your class status, which means that unranked people are no less intelligent than ranked people. If that's true, then unranked people have the brain power to contribute to society in many ways, and without tapping into that resource, it seems unlikely that Krypton could be that advanced.
I also wonder if Rao is Brainiac in disguise.
The Kryptonian council also sounds like flat earthers. A society based on science would not murder someone for having a scientific theory.
Though Christopher Reeve is the ultimate Superman, I felt that Donner/Puzo made a huge mistake in how they portrayed Krypton as this cold, lifeless society.
I still think it should be more like in the cartoon or before the Reeve movies--a good society, with good people. That way, Krypton's destruction has a real loss.
Critical reviews aren't supposed to be something you blindly agree with, they're supposed to be a source of information you can consider in making your decisions. Just listening to an opinion doesn't compel you to accept it as true -- and, conversely, disagreeing with an opinion doesn't mean you can't give it a fair hearing.
Novelist Adam-Troy Castro had a Facebook post on this subject just recently, and I thought he made an interesting observation.
In other words, it's not a critic's job to talk you out of enjoying something you're already predisposed to enjoy; it's their job to point you toward things you hadn't already been aware of, or at least were unsure about. If a movie or show is the sort of thing you're likely to enjoy going in, then you don't need anyone to influence your decision; but if it's something outside your usual experience or interests, something you weren't already going to see by default or wouldn't even have contemplated seeing on your own, then hearing outside opinions on whether it's worth seeing can help you make that decision.
For instance, I tried out Syfy's The Magicians when it premiered, but I lost interest after a couple of weeks and stopped watching. But last year, I read an article or two praising it for the things it had done since then, the sort of things I thought I would enjoy seeing. So when season 2 finally hit Netflix, I binge-watched the series, and I quite enjoyed it. And now I'm a dedicated fan. A bad review of a show I'm already watching wouldn't make me stop watching it, of course, but a good review of a show I hadn't been watching led me to give it a chance, and as a result, I've gained a positive experience I wouldn't otherwise have had. That's what critics are for.
I don't give a shit about critics, the only thing I find annoying about it is when you mention you like something five people who don't even care about the thing you like will immediately jump in with "BLARRGH BLARGH IT'S SHIT 30% SHIT SHIT" drowning any potential discussion with people who actually do like that thing.
But that's more people being dicks on the internet issue, rather than critics issue.
But that's more people being dicks on the internet issue, rather than critics issue.
Agreed with all of this, but would add that good critics have another function besides aiding in deciding and finding what to watch (or read, listen to, etc.). Namely, they can provide interesting perspectives and insights on things you've already experienced. When I've finished watching something, I almost always seek out and read reviews (as well as "civilian" commentary on talkbacks and message boards). I'm actually a pretty avid consumer of opinions -- not so they can dictate mine, but to expand and enhance my own viewpoint.
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Yes, exactly. Conversation is about listening, even to points of view we don't share. Even if we disagree with someone else's conclusions, we may be able to understand their reasons for arriving at them and recognize that those reasons are not malicious.
Yeah, I agree, this is why I often will read reviews of things I’ve just watched. A good critic will often have insights above the surface and can really enhance the experience.
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That's not how critics' reviews have ever been used, though, especially in the Internet-dependent society we currently live in.
So what? Just because other people misunderstand a thing, that doesn't require you to do it wrong too.
And, yes, it is exactly how critics' reviews have always been used by plenty of people. I just gave you an example of how I used a critic's review in just that way vis-a-vis The Magicians, so it's completely silly for you to respond to something I actually did just a few months ago and tell me to my figurative face that nobody in history has ever done anything like it. I mean, come on.
Anyway, this is the Krypton thread, so can we please talk about the actual show? It turns out the cigarette box Adam Strange dropped had the brand name "Luthorellos" on it, so maybe there's some significance to its seemingly random inclusion. I guess it's no surprise Lex Luthor exists in the future, but I'm still wondering why Superman doesn't seem to be using his cape anymore. Just how prominent -- and successful -- is Luthor in that future?
Meanwhile, it occurs to me that there's probably some surprise coming about the identity of the "Voice of Rao," since anyone who's only seen behind a mask and doesn't speak on camera has got to have a hidden identity of some sort. I'm not sure it's plausible that it could be Brainiac himself, but maybe it's an agent of Brainiac's, or perhaps another time traveler.
I had some of the same thoughts as you about Kyptonian society. Ultimately, this show is just a fictional re-imagining, not meant to accurately portray a futuristic scientific society, maybe making it feudal/medieval was a template chosen, because it was better suited for the story they wanted to tell. I rather like the Donner Superman film versions of Krypton, it seems a lot more alien to me with their organic crystalline technology, than a high-tech, Blade Runner/Star Wars type of futuristic society.
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