• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Kor made an excellent point about STIV

..... if Pine/Quinto were to end up in the 80s, the implication is they would run into Shatner/Nimoy.....
Or 1930's New York? Or 1968 New York?

Personally, I think the JJ-alternate universe isn't a branch, it was never a part of the prime, so if Pine and Quinto went back to 1980's San Fransisco there would be no Shat and Nimoy there, because it would be different universe's part.
 
But in-Universe, whether you go by 'timeline rewrite" (my own personal preferred take on time travel) or "branching timelines" the shared history would still remain, before the point of the Nero incursion. Dialogue from the first movie made it clear that it was the same Universe, with different things happening this time around.
 
Or 1930's New York? Or 1968 New York?

Personally, I think the JJ-alternate universe isn't a branch, it was never a part of the prime, so if Pine and Quinto went back to 1980's San Fransisco there would be no Shat and Nimoy there, because it would be different universe's part.
I agree with you, despite the canon impression its supposed to be a change to the Prime timeline from Nero's entrance in 2233. This is a completely different universe - Kirk's mother was heavily pregnant on a ship a good distance from Iowa. Prime Kirk was born in Iowa, his pregnant mother was nowhere near a ship. I would not even use the film's dialogue as prove of a branch from the Prime, if that was really the filmmakers intention Kirk's birthplace is a plothole that contradicts their intent.
 
Or, the incursion forced her to go into labor early, rather then getting home first.

Or Nero butterfly effect-ed more then we think, during the year or however long he was waiting for Spock.
 
Or, the incursion forced her to go into labor early, rather then getting home first.

Or Nero butterfly effect-ed more then we think, during the year or however long he was waiting for Spock.

The first is possible, depends on how close they were to Earth, I get the impression they were on their way home when they were told to investigate the lightening storm in space.
If Kirk was born the same day as Prime Kirk whether Nero showed up or not then there is no butterfly effect caused by Nero. How long had the lightening storm in space been flashing before USS Kelvin showed up?
 
You're right, I messed up that part. I've only seen the movie once. The time gap is the years that Kirk grows up, which makes even less sense. Ugh.

There is no way of telling if they were born the same day, then; Just that nuKirk grew up without the guidance of his father.

I stand by the first option, then.
 
Or, the incursion forced her to go into labor early, rather then getting home first.
But when a woman goes into labor owing to a traumatic event, the baby doesn't just "fall out," Phoenix219 it still takes hours.

Long before the ship responded to the lightning storm, Winona would have been in labor.

.
 
I agree.

I also agree that Star Trek and Into Darkness happened in their own alternate reality that was formed when Nero showed up in 2233. Which would mean that what happened in ENT still happened, but everything after the interference is up for grabs.

Considering that I find a large amount of ENT dull,I find this very amusing.
 
But when a woman goes into labor owing to a traumatic event, the baby doesn't just "fall out," Phoenix219 it still takes hours.

Long before the ship responded to the lightning storm, Winona would have been in labor.

.

I'm saying that the stress of the incident could have caused it all to happen prematurely; it could have been days, or weeks off schedule.
 
...For all we know, Winona was deliberately delaying the delivery by means of 23rd century medicine, and Nero's attack took those means away from her. Although very rapid and unexpected delivery is by no means that unusual, let alone impossible.

What Nero influenced and what he did not can be divided sharply in two in two different senses:

1) In-universe, nothing dating from before his emergence should be affected while everything after it theoretically could.

2) Out-universe, everything seems to have changed visually (including every detail of the characters' appearance and behavior) both before and after the emergence but isn't supposed to count and isn't the doing of Nero (except in terms of 1, that is).

But that doesn't make things clear-cut in the final analysis. Many things like Uhura's appearance are fuzzy because of a combination of the above two: it's after the emergence (as she was born after Jim Kirk), but could just as well be in the "not counting" category.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Somehow, Chekov was conveived much, much earlier.

Any change in timing in these regards explains the differences in appearance, because it is definitely a slightly different genetic make up - the shortlived show Journeyman had an episode dealing with this, and it was fantastic.

Kirk, Spock and McCoy, Scotty and Pike shouldn't look any different, of course.
 
LOL I like the idea that as soon as Nero appeared:-

Amanda Grayson stopped dying her hair blonde and her eyes changed colour
Little Leonard McCoy's blues eyes turned brown
Baby James Kirk inherited Thor's tall genes and grew to 6 foot instead of 5 foot nothing
Mr Chekov Snr met a different female so their son Pavel was born four years earlier and a genius OR in the Prime world their first baby was a girl, in this reboot universe their first baby was a boy..its all the luck of the sperm.
Number One changed her name to Number Two
Alexander Marcus decided England would be a great place to have children
Mr and Mrs Uhura announced the birth of their little baby girl Nyota in 2233 but in the Prime universe Mr and Mrs Uhura had a boy that year.
:lol:
 
Last edited:
I'm saying that the stress of the incident could have caused it all to happen prematurely; it could have been days, or weeks off schedule.
But from the time the ship is first attacked, till the birth of the baby, is less than an hour.

Even if the trauma of the attack is what caused Winona to go into labor early the baby wouldn't have been born for hours. For James to have been born in the shuttle when he was, Winona would of had to of been in labor hours before the attack.
.
 
Ok just checked the novel cos I'm anal that way lol The ship was 1 light year outside the Klingon Neutral Zone and Mrs Kirk was on inhibitors so she could give birth on Earth. So it seems the KNZ is not that far from Earth for this plot device since that baby was not premature at all lol You can get to Vulcan and Kronos in a day in the JJverse. Probably takes 1hr to fly to Australia!
 
Somehow, Chekov was conveived much, much earlier.

Much later. Four years later, to be exact. Chekov in these movies is younger than ever.

(And of course this means that Nero's butterflies would have had four extra years to do their magic. Perhaps Pavel's parents just swapped the names of their two sons, and again Pyotr got killed by Klingons.)

Even if the trauma of the attack is what caused Winona to go into labor early the baby wouldn't have been born for hours

How so? From the first observable contractions to birth, the process can take as little as a quarter of an hour - I've seen that happen to a second-timer. Is there some sort of a mandatory waiting period between trauma and the onset of contractions?

The ship was 1 light year outside the Klingon Neutral Zone

This doesn't work well with the actual movie, because the Klingons there are mere 75,000 kilometers from the heroes. Neutral Zones supposedly disallow the passage beyond, or even presence within, of ships, so the Klingons being that close should cause quite a bit of alarm, yet the distance in fact is quoted as reassuring.

It might be better to assume that there is no Klingon Neutral Zone in existence, so a Klingon ship tailing our heroes at such point blank range would be just another regular Cold War occurrence, no different from Russian subs tailing (and tailgating!) US boomers or vice versa.

Or then the walla in the movie meant something different altogether. Perhaps the "Could this be Klingon?" -> "Negative, you're 75,000 km from the-" exchange might mean that the heroes are close to some place that Klingons avoid like plague, and therefore Klingons can't be behind the stormy conundrum?

Timo Saloniemi
 
The more you dip into this the more you see the holes in the plot lol This is another universe no matter what JJ thinks lol Not even the Guardian can fix this one lol
 
No, Chekov is OLDER, we are just seeing him at a younger point. OUR Chekov should have been a teenager, not sitting on the bridge, at that point in the timeline.
 
Chekov is also more intelligent in the alternate universe. Prime Pavel had decent average intelligence, but there was never any indication that he possessed superior brain power.


.
 
SOOO, if NuKirk and crew ended up in the 80s, or 30s, or 60s, and ran into the time fragments/leftovers of the TOS crew (a la Back to the Future 2), where does the Bird of Prey go when it warps out? How does it know which timeline to go to? Lol. Especially if the crews mingle, or leave together. Fascinating.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top