Knowledgeable Data fans, please help me !

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by TauCygna, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    That's what I've been thinking when I heard Data talk about positronic brain for the first time. That'd be very interesting to know how much inspiration Soong got from Asimov when creating B-4, Lore and Data.
     
  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    As I recall, the technical aspects of Asimov's positronic brain concept were pretty vague.

    And Soong-type androids have greater autonomy and free will than Asimovian robots, at least what I remember from reading the robot trilogy.

    So it was just a bit of a respectful shout-out, that's all. The details don't necessarily match well.

    Kor
     
  3. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    Soooo...I asked my local English bookshop and they can't import any TNG novels because they're not printed anymore -_-
    I guess I'll have to check Amazon for pre-owned books.
    By the way, has anyone read The Light Fantastic ? I wonder if it's a good book.
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Not as good as Immortal Coil, but it's okay.

    You need to read the Cold Equations books first to get Data's post-Nemesis resurrection before Light Fantastic.
     
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  5. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    Okay...so basically I should begin with Immortal Coil, then Cold Equations and Light Fantastic (but once I saw Resurrection). Got it !
    I am not very impatient to watch Resurrection, though...I already know Data will be destroyed and I know it will cause me a massive tears crisis :wah:
    I got incredibly attached to that character somehow.

    Also I wanted to get the topic up for a new question...
    I watched Legacy today and got puzzled (and amazed - but still puzzled) about Data's reactions and behaviours towards Tasha's young sister. Am I the only one to think he acted a lot like he was in love with her, I mean, in his own specific way ? I know he can't exactly "feel" without the emotion chip, yet in that episode he did appear attracted, bonded, shocked and even hurt. I may just be anthropomorphizing him by thinking that way, though.

    On a different topic, I was reading Asimov's "Bicentennial Man" again yesterday, and it made me think about androids' legal status in TNG. I didn't watch the whole series yet, still I don't remember a single episode in which Data is confirmed to be legally recognized as a person. In The Measure of a Man, Louvois gives a decision in favor of Data's freedom of choice, yet she doesn't grant him legal personhood. Does it mean that his legal status is still unclear and submitted to personal opinions ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  6. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    Sorry for double-posting, but I had to upload this ;)
    [​IMG]
    My used TNG books have arrived in their loving forever home ^^
    There are two more on the road ;)
     
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  7. LJS1138

    LJS1138 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    No, you're not alone. It does seem that way. I studied Spiner's performances in the episodes, and then crossed my fingers that his body movements, gestures and facial expressions were being made deliberately, rather than something like "Oh, I was hungover that day, so Data accidentally winces there." He does seem like he becomes infatuated with Ishara, especially after a facial expression of hers reminds him of Tasha.

    That's how I read it, as well. While you would think that his legal status was hammered out when applied to Starfleet, it seems more like each time there's a hearing, only the bare minimum decision is made. Is Data a legal citizen of the UFP with full rights? Ummm... we'll save that for later and just rule that Data has the right to join Starfleet and be an officer in its ranks. ... Is Data a legal citizen of the UFP with full rights? Umm... we'll just rule right now that Data has the right to choose and to refuse dismantlement.
    Why did I come to this conclusion? Because nobody gave a flying leap about Lore, who was obviously just as sentient. They left him in space for years, without even a thought to it. There's no mention of a trial to come, in the Descent Part 2 captain logs. Also, the EMHs were put into slavery, as seen in Voyager, despite there being a concern about their sentience. And the Doctor's own sentience is outright refused and, again, they do the bare minimum: The Doctor has the rights to his creative works, and that's it.

    In January 2017, Netflix put ST Nemesis on, and I hadn't seen it since it opened in the theater. I came out, not wanting my money back, but wanting my TIME back. So, here it was 15 years later and I thought "I'll watch it while I walk. Maybe it's not as bad as I remember." When it ended, I'd burned 900 calories, but my mind was also burning. Nemesis was worse than I remembered. This time, though, it had a cascade in my head, causing my brain to write a Fan Fiction without my wanting to. My husband noticed I was 'thinking' more, and asked about it. He told me to write the story, because he wanted to read it. I didn't know about David Mack's books at the time, and anyway, I wanted to delve into the aspects of Data and the Soong androids and holography AI that were lightly hinted at, but never deeply gone into. I approached Data (and B-4 and Lore) from the cybernetics, programming and neural net design aspects in my story. This includes some bits about how Data receives sensory input and also AI rights.

    You're welcome to read it and maybe it gives you some ideas or inspirations. I have the story on Archive of their Own and Fanfiction .Net as Data Recovery. When Data Recovery was finished, I got private messages from some of the readers, asking for more, so I'm currently working on the sequel, Wayward Son.
     
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  8. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    Wow, thanks for the interesting info ! I gotta PM you, that'd be fun to talk with another Data fan ! :D
     
  9. LJS1138

    LJS1138 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I am always up for android chats. :)
     
  10. Nakita Akita

    Nakita Akita Captain Captain

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    Agreed.
    In addition, how does anyone know what the other person is feeling?
    Who among us hasn't faked stuff to get what we want or need or to keep the peace?

    I don't see having a relationship with Data as being that much different than having s relationship with possibly for example a person from a different culture.
    My BF is "Japanese", culture which is very different from my "German", culture.

    In Trek universe it wouldn't be that much different between Data and a human dating than a Betazoid and Klingon for example.
     
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  11. TauCygna

    TauCygna Captain Captain

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    I like the comparison Data/biological humanoid with Betazoid/Klingon :bolian:
    Compared to a Betazoid, most humanoids would be seen as unempathetic, since they're incapable of truly feeling and sharing the others' emotions. Some Betazoids may find it difficult to date another species due to the differences in emotion perception. Some of them probably wouldn't want to date anyone but another Betazoid for this reason.
    That's not so different from how difficult it would be for some humanoids to date Data [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017