Klingon WARBIRDS?

[SHCone]

I noticed, but also didn't care. I'm far more amused by the notion that Kirk didn't really care at the moment and just called them whatever because he knew he'd beat the system.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Where did that come from? Only the Romulans have Warbirds. Klingons have Birds-of-Prey and battlecruisers in this century.

Yeah, it's a goof. Then again, so was using the term "Bird-of-Prey" for a Klingon ship in "The Seach for Spock". Prior to TSFS, only Romulan ships were known as "Bird-of-Preys". Klingons had battle cruisers. And had there been Internet forums in 1984, Trek fans would have certainly complained about that as well back then. But since 1984, the goof from TSFS has been widely accepted as "Canon".

:sighs:

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

So those Birds of Prey the Klingons were flying in Enterprise aka the 22nd century weren't really there

 

[3D Master]

Yeah, it's a goof. Then again, so was using the term "Bird-of-Prey" for a Klingon ship in "The Seach for Spock". Prior to TSFS, only Romulan ships were known as "Bird-of-Preys". Klingons had battle cruisers. And had there been Internet forums in 1984, Trek fans would have certainly complained about that as well back then. But since 1984, the goof from TSFS has been widely accepted as "Canon".

:sighs:

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

So those Birds of Prey the Klingons were flying in Enterprise aka the 22nd century weren't really there

Exactly, there is no NX-01 starship Enterprise either. It's just one giant continuity flaw that anyone better erase from their memory as never having happened.

 

[Tom Servo]

:sighs:

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

So those Birds of Prey the Klingons were flying in Enterprise aka the 22nd century weren't really there

Exactly, there is no NX-01 starship Enterprise either. It's just one giant continuity flaw that anyone better erase from their memory as never having happened.

Nah, I think most of us will remember it thank you. It's easily explained away.

 

[Plecostomus]

Exactly, there is no NX-01 starship Enterprise either. It's just one giant continuity flaw that anyone better erase from their memory as never having happened.

Wow my eyes rolled back so hard I look like LaForge sans VISOR now.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

Mostly fanon and rumor.

The only thing said onscreen during TOS about Romulans and Klingons having any contact at all was "Starfleet reports that Romulans are now using Klingon designs." No talk at all about "alliances" or mutual exchanges of any kind.

And as noted above, no Romulan ship was referred to as either a "Bird of Prey" or a "Warbird" during TOS.

The change from Romulans to Klingons was made pretty early in the development of ST III - apparently after a story treatment was approved but before the first revised screenplay - and well before decisions would have had to have been made about ship designs and effects model detailing. The producers stuck with the "bird of prey" because they liked it, and any talk about how it was "okay" because it stuck with established continuity - with the implication, there, that had it been problematic it would have been sacrificed on the altar of canon - is foolishness.

Makes a good story, though.

In terms of the official, onscreen continuity - the only actual "canon" of Trek - the Klingons were using ships called "Warbirds" as early as Archer's time.

 

[nx1701g]

:sighs:

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

So those Birds of Prey the Klingons were flying in Enterprise aka the 22nd century weren't really there

Exactly, there is no NX-01 starship Enterprise either. It's just one giant continuity flaw that anyone better erase from their memory as never having happened.

Enterprise is the only series canon in the new timeline; the prime timeline is still happening but Enterprise is the only thing affecting nuTrek.

 

[JuanBolio]

Where did that come from? Only the Romulans have Warbirds. Klingons have Birds-of-Prey and battlecruisers in this century.

Yeah, it's a goof. Then again, so was using the term "Bird-of-Prey" for a Klingon ship in "The Seach for Spock". Prior to TSFS, only Romulan ships were known as "Bird-of-Preys". Klingons had battle cruisers. And had there been Internet forums in 1984, Trek fans would have certainly complained about that as well back then. But since 1984, the goof from TSFS has been widely accepted as "Canon".

:sighs:

In TOS we know that the Romulans and Klingons had a technology exchange/short-term alliance. When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed. Then they figured, when they were changed to Klingons, do we need to create a new ship? And they realized that no they didn't, because of that technology exchange. What can happen one way, can happen in the other. Thus, Klingons gained Birds of Prey, but ONLY Birds of Prey, and NOT before the mid-to-late-2260s. Before that, the Klingons neither had Birds of Prey, let alone Warbirds. All they had were Battle Cruisers and similarly called ships.

Perhaps, as I said, Klingon battlecruisers outfitted with Romulan cloaking technology are referred to as "warbirds".

 

[3D Master]

Perhaps, as I said, Klingon battlecruisers outfitted with Romulan cloaking technology are referred to as "warbirds".

Nope, there've been plenty of battlecruisers that had cloaking devices and they were not called warbirds.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Actually, in the TMP era Klingon battle cruisers were not equipped with cloaking devices. It was implied that Klingon cloaks were too power intensive and the only ship small enough to use one was a bird of prey.

OTOH, the term "warbird" didn't exist until it was invented in TNG. It probably applies just as well in the TOS period via retcon.

 

[3D Master]

Actually, in the TMP era Klingon battle cruisers were not equipped with cloaking devices. It was implied that Klingon cloaks were too power intensive and the only ship small enough to use one was a bird of prey.

OTOH, the term "warbird" didn't exist until it was invented in TNG. It probably applies just as well in the TOS period via retcon.

Since a Romulan ship was never named directly, it isn't a retcon at all. A retcon is actually changing something that came before with something else. Since nothing was change, no retcon.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What a few people think are flaws in the official continuity is meaningless for several reasons, the most basic of which is that Trek's continuity is "flawed" from the very beginning. It is in great measure the sum of its shortcomings.

 

[number6]

In this film Klingons have warbirds. In the films and in the series they have Birds of Prey and such. It is referred to onscreen as such. TOS mentions "Bird of Prey" once in Balance of Terror. The rest of Trek history has been filled in by the minds of fans and the writers who write for and produce Star Trek. It exists as part of Trek's continuity.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TOS never mentions ships called "birds of prey." A character does say that their ships are painted like birds of prey.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS never mentions ships called "birds of prey." A character does say that their ships are painted like birds of prey.

Preach it brother!!!! It will fall on deaf ears, but preach it!

 

[Captain Fine]

One mention of Klingon Warbirds may have been a fluke. But twice? In a TV series AND a big budget movie? It's definitely canon. In the time from Archer to Kirk, Klingons have warbirds and birds-of-prey.

 

[Praetor]

The Empire would officially like to distance itself from this whole debacle.

It really all depends on what the meaning of the term "bird of prey" is...

 

[number6]

TOS never mentions ships called "birds of prey." A character does say that their ships are painted like birds of prey.

That is the only time we ever hear "Bird of Prey" on TOS.

That doesn't preclude in any way the possiblity that Klingons could have Warbirds or Birds of Prey of their own. It has never been stated one way or the other ever on TOS.

 

[trevanian]

When you see the Bird of Prey in STIII, you even see the Romulan style wing paintings at the under carriage. This is because originally the bad guys in STIII were Romulans, so a Romulan ship was designed.

Mostly fanon and rumor.
[snip]
The change from Romulans to Klingons was made pretty early in the development of ST III - apparently after a story treatment was approved but before the first revised screenplay - and well before decisions would have had to have been made about ship designs and effects model detailing.

Mostly wrong, but you should be getting used to that.

ILM was doing their designwork very early on, not just for fx but also for production (tricorders and such), and the BOP ... I just came across an old CFQ covering TWOK-TVH yesterday morning and there's mention from somebody (par art dept guy?) saying it was definitely supposed to have been mentioned in the film that the ship had been stolen from the Romulans to account for the look of the ship.

The switch from rom to kling only got passed on to ILM after a lot of the design work was done, and with the approved design already finding favor, the 'cover story' of the stolen from roms thing came into play, only to be dropped, presumably because 'who would care?'

Nice try though.

 

[JuanBolio]

Perhaps, as I said, Klingon battlecruisers outfitted with Romulan cloaking technology are referred to as "warbirds".

Nope, there've been plenty of battlecruisers that had cloaking devices and they were not called warbirds.

True, but it works as an excuse. After all, we've never heard of a battlecruiser NOT equipped with a cloak referred to as a "warbird", unless you count the goof in the series premiere of Enterprise.