Klingon-Federation War of 2372-3

[Anwar]

I simply don't understand how a warrior culture could develop advanced technology. Yes, the Klingons would probably dump lots of resources into weapons development, but given that most Klingons are obsessed with being warriors, why would any be willing to sit behind a desk and research? The Federation's culture promotes research, and as such, would have far more advanced ships.

It's just that the Klingons we often see are the warriors and the particularly obsessed warriors at that. We've seen others, like Klingon scientists and lawyers and stuff. They're there, we just don't see them because the writers don't focus on them much.

 

[Pavonis]

We've seen Klingon scientists, lawyers, and even a nanny. But considering the main focus on Star Trek is Starfleet, we're fortunate to even have a glimpse of Klingon civilians when we barely see Federation civilians.

 

[jmampilly]

I simply don't understand how a warrior culture could develop advanced technology. Yes, the Klingons would probably dump lots of resources into weapons development, but given that most Klingons are obsessed with being warriors, why would any be willing to sit behind a desk and research? The Federation's culture promotes research, and as such, would have far more advanced ships.

It's just that the Klingons we often see are the warriors and the particularly obsessed warriors at that. We've seen others, like Klingon scientists and lawyers and stuff. They're there, we just don't see them because the writers don't focus on them much.

In the Next Generation episode "Suspicions," Dr. Crusher talks about a Klingon scientist who is "defensive of her work, because her career choice isn't respected in Klingon society." ...This would indicate that yes, scientists exist, but they aren't respected in Klingon society.

As a result, the Klingon Empire should have inferior technology to the Federation, given that it doesn't have many scientists.

 

[Anwar]

I simply don't understand how a warrior culture could develop advanced technology. Yes, the Klingons would probably dump lots of resources into weapons development, but given that most Klingons are obsessed with being warriors, why would any be willing to sit behind a desk and research? The Federation's culture promotes research, and as such, would have far more advanced ships.

It's just that the Klingons we often see are the warriors and the particularly obsessed warriors at that. We've seen others, like Klingon scientists and lawyers and stuff. They're there, we just don't see them because the writers don't focus on them much.

In the Next Generation episode "Suspicions," Dr. Crusher talks about a Klingon scientist who is "defensive of her work, because her career choice isn't respected in Klingon society." ...This would indicate that yes, scientists exist, but they aren't respected in Klingon society.

As a result, the Klingon Empire should have inferior technology to the Federation, given that it doesn't have many scientists.

No one looked down on the Klingon Chef, or the Klingon Lawyer, or the Klingon Opera Singers either.

Maybe it was just her particular research that wasn't respected.

 

[Pavonis]

Klingons love opera singers. Hell I think they only go to war to inspire new operas! But how much complexity is there to their cuisine? They seem to only eat gagh of various sizes. The chef probably gets more respect outside of the empire than within it. And lawyers are just court warriors - they fight with words rather than swords.

Anyway, there's more to career choice than the amount of respect society has for that career.

 

[Timo]

But how much complexity is there to their cuisine?

Here's an example:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s2/2x08/amatterofhonor058.jpg

Being a Klingon chef is probably a position well suited for a brave warrior who knows his way around a sharp blade... Although being a Klingon gourmand might place an even greater demand for nerves (and stomachs) of steel!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Edit_XYZ]

It's just that the Klingons we often see are the warriors and the particularly obsessed warriors at that. We've seen others, like Klingon scientists and lawyers and stuff. They're there, we just don't see them because the writers don't focus on them much.

In the Next Generation episode "Suspicions," Dr. Crusher talks about a Klingon scientist who is "defensive of her work, because her career choice isn't respected in Klingon society." ...This would indicate that yes, scientists exist, but they aren't respected in Klingon society.

As a result, the Klingon Empire should have inferior technology to the Federation, given that it doesn't have many scientists.

No one looked down on the Klingon Chef, or the Klingon Lawyer, or the Klingon Opera Singers either.

Maybe it was just her particular research that wasn't respected.

Have we seen the klingon chef or the klingon lawyer actually interact with other klingons in a non-formal situation? For all we know, they're routinely being spit upon.
As for the klingon scientist, she's "defensive of her work, because her career choice isn't respected in Klingon society.". The career choice isn't respected, not a particular research.
Klingons do seem to love opera (and, presumably, opera singers), though.

 

[Timo]

But does the profession of opera singer exist? Or is every Klingon rather supposed to be one?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Only if the acoustics are favorable.

--Sran

 

[MacLeod]

But how much complexity is there to their cuisine?

Here's an example:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s2/2x08/amatterofhonor058.jpg

Being a Klingon chef is probably a position well suited for a brave warrior who knows his way around a sharp blade... Although being a Klingon gourmand might place an even greater demand for nerves (and stomachs) of steel!

Timo Saloniemi

Well it is said an Army marches on it's stomach.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Alternate timelines aside, isn't it already ridiculous to compare a war started in 2372 with one started in the 2340s, even in the same timeline?

 

[Pavonis]

I don't think so. Starfleet uses ships for decades, and their primary technologies aren't much different from the 23rd to the 24th century, so the comparison is not as radically different as comparing, say, 1910s tech to 1940s tech. Since we're always data-limited in Star Trek, we have to use what little is shown.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

I don't think so. Starfleet uses ships for decades, and their primary technologies aren't much different from the 23rd to the 24th century, so the comparison is not as radically different as comparing, say, 1910s tech to 1940s tech. Since we're always data-limited in Star Trek, we have to use what little is shown.

But what ships they use isn't the only thing that determines the outcome of a war. There would be a different set of Klingon generals, a different set of Starfleet brass, different strategies discussed and executed, different objectives, and an entirely different set of political leaders. There's an almost 30 year difference and a lot of things have happened in between. The military hardware is but a small part of the equation.

 

[Pavonis]

I don't think the generals and admirals would be significantly different. I suspect K'mpec would be the leader in the alternate timeline, using the war with the Federation to distract the various factions in the Empire from fighting each other. And I think that since Picard, Riker, LaForge, Data, and the Crushers have the exact same positions in both timelines suggests that little else is changed. If the war timeline were radically different, I'd expect an Admiral Picard commanding fleets, with Captains Riker and Data commanding ships and a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander Wes Crusher leading troops at the front. The E-D would look more like the Defiant and less like an exploration vessel. If I'm going to be convinced that the war timeline is radically different I need to understand how everything but the Enterprise is changed so much. I understand why it is not different production-wise, but not in-universe.

 

[TheSubCommander]

The E-D would look more like the Defiant and less like an exploration vessel.

Not necessarily. IN YE, I believe it is mentioned that E-D doubled as both a warship and a transport for troops. It is odd that some believe the Galaxy classes were push overs. They weren't though, and indeed were state of the art through the entire run of TNG, and well into DS9. Regardless of what timeline you talk about, they could be fielded as very powerful warships. In the YE timeline, while very few actual differences exist, they were configured to be geared towards war more than exploration.

Even in the prime universe, the Galaxy class ships were the most powerful Fed ships at the time of their construction, and still were as of Season 3. By 2372, Galaxies still were capital ships and while maybe a Sovereign class could possibly take out a Galaxy, it would have been marginally, AND would depend on who was captain of each ship, too. Not to mention, there were undoubtedly more Galaxy class ships in 2372 than Sovereigns....point being Galaxy class ships were still the main heavy hitter in Starfleet in 2372.

 

[Pavonis]

The Galaxies were developed in peace time as mobile cities in space. Such an exploration vessel wouldn't be developed by a society at war. The fact that they acquitted themselves decently in battle against the Dominion doesn't mean that they're an ideal warship design. The further fact that the Galaxy was built and used in the war timeline says that the timelines aren't as different as they appear to be.

 

[TheSubCommander]

The Galaxies were developed in peace time as mobile cities in space. Such an exploration vessel wouldn't be developed by a society at war. The fact that they acquitted themselves decently in battle against the Dominion doesn't mean that they're an ideal warship design. The further fact that the Galaxy was built and used in the war timeline says that the timelines aren't as different as they appear to be.

I disagree. They were very ideal platforms for warships.

They may have been geared towards exploration, but that was the configuration they had during peace time. They had state of the art tech AND lots of real estate. In war time, with very few mods, not only could they be the big heavies in a fight, they could also be used as troop transports, configured for additional torpedo and phaser arrays (IE ALL good things, anyone?), possibly even as aircraft carriers of sorts for smaller fighter class ships.

In fact, I would say that probably the only Federation ship capable of taking down a Galaxy class, would be a Sovereign, and even then it would be close.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I would think that Galaxies have too many windows to be a warship and, ergo, too many hull vulnerabilities if shields came down and easier for a hull breach to occur. If they cut down on the number of windows on the YE E-D, then yes, I could see it as a decent battle platform.

 

[Anwar]

If the shields went down, it didn't matter how tough the hull was. They didn't come up with armor tough enough to survive without shields until years after the Galaxy class.

 

[137th Gebirg]

True, but several thick layers of duranium/tritanium may buy you a couple extra seconds over no more than 2 layers of transparent aluminum to vacate the area before it ventilated from being carved.