Klingon Defense Force - Dumb Question

[JD]

I think part of the problem here, is that you seem to be talking about human rights as a specific document laying out those rights, where I think alot of the other posters here are talking more about the general concept of human rights, as in the way we should and shouldn't treat each other.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think part of the problem here, is that you seem to be talking about human rights as a specific document laying out those rights, where I think alot of the other posters here are talking more about the general concept of human rights, as in the way we should and shouldn't treat each other.

Yeah, you're right. Of course, if they're seeing human rights as "the way we should and shouldn't treat each other", then I'm in full agreement with human rights as it is so defined. I just don't personally call it a collection of "rights", because to me rights are a fiction. I simply believe in "the way we should and shouldn't treat each other", our personal responsibility, without applying a label to it or pretending some external authority pressures us. In practice, it's pretty much the exact same thing. The difference is in perception, as you say.

 

[Sci]

I think part of the problem here, is that you seem to be talking about human rights as a specific document laying out those rights, where I think alot of the other posters here are talking more about the general concept of human rights, as in the way we should and shouldn't treat each other.

This.

I was referring to the general idea of "things that people ought not to have to suffer from at the hands of others," not any specific document (be it the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the European Convention on Human Rights, the United States Constitution, or what-have-you).

 

[T'Girl]

'army navy'? seriously?!

Doesn't the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) basically have a Army Navy?

The Klingon Defense Force might just be one of a long series of self identifiers the klingons have applied to their forces through the years, it may last a few decades and then be changed again.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Having lived in Japan on a Military Base, it makes me think of the Japanese Self-Defense Force.

 

[Herbert1]

FWIW, it was called the "Klingon Imperial Fleet" in one of the TAS episodes. My impression was that they gave it a new, softer name around the time of the Klingon/Federation alliance (perhaps part of some Klingon domestication post-STVI?)
Was the Klingon armada named in Enterprise?

That was my understanding too. It was the Imperial Fleet in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Divergence" per Memory Alpha: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon_Imperial_Fleet

Remember too that Klingon ships are prefixed with IKS for Imperial Klingon Ship in TNG onwards not KDS for Klingon Defense Ship. It was Klingon Imperial Cruiser Amar in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. So I presume that the Klingon military was referred to as the Klingon Imperial Fleet during the 22nd and 23rd centuries. Perhaps the name was changed to Klingon Defense Force sometime after the Khitomer Peace Treaty.

Having lived in Japan on a Military Base, it makes me think of the Japanese Self-Defense Force.

I believe that they intended the viewer to draw parallels between the Klingon Defense Force and the Japanese Self-Defense Force in Star Trek: The Next Generation.

 

[captcalhoun]

'army navy'? seriously?!

Doesn't the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) basically have a Army Navy?

The Klingon Defense Force might just be one of a long series of self identifiers the klingons have applied to their forces through the years, it may last a few decades and then be changed again.

The IDF, like the Canadian forces, is a joint command. IDF Land, Navy and Air. the PLAN is a seperate command, as are the PLA and PLAAF. they just have those ridiculous names.

Having lived in Japan on a Military Base, it makes me think of the Japanese Self-Defense Force.

yeah, but the JSDF are a non-expeditionary force. IE, they rarely operate outside Japan/Japanese territorial waters. the KDF is most definitely an expeditionary force.

 

[Rosalind]

it's no worse than the People's Republic of China calling their navy the People's Liberation Army Navy and their aerial forces the People's Liberation Army Air Force.

'army navy'? seriously?!

yup.

actually, it's one of those "lost in translation" things. The literal translation should be something like "people's liberation armed forces' navy branch", it is not "army navy" in Chinese at all.

 

[EmperorKalan]

it's no worse than the People's Republic of China calling their navy the People's Liberation Army Navy and their aerial forces the People's Liberation Army Air Force.

'army navy'? seriously?!

yup.

actually, it's one of those "lost in translation" things. The literal translation should be something like "people's liberation armed forces' navy branch", it is not "army navy" in Chinese at all.

Speaking of "lost in the translation", I kind of go with the notion that in whatever Klingonese phrase that gets translated as "Defense Force", the word used for "defense" has some aggressive connotation (on the order of "the best defense is a good offense")

 

[Drizzt]

Thanks, guys, for all the replies and insight. I have only one friend that is a Trek fan on the same level that I am, and he doesn't even read 'Trek' novels. So, when I have a Trek Lit question, it's awesome to come here and get so much input from folks, like yourselves, who are fully immersed in the 'Trek' culture. Thanks a million!

P.S. I just gave my friend a copy of "Death in Winter", and am insisting that he delve into Trek Lit. He is a big fan of Borg stories, and obviously, I felt that he would greatly enjoy some of the TNG novels that have been released like "Resistance", "Greater than the Sum," not to mention the events of "Destiny". Here's hoping!

 

[SpyOne]

I don't know about Cardassians, but their homeworld seems to be rather devoid of natural resources, so maybe hunger can be a reason for that. Coupled with their emphasis on family, it seems that their expansionism is rooted in the the deeply-felt cultural need to ensure that their family would never feel hungry again.

Indeed. I still think there's a sense of victimization in there, though. I think on some level the Cardassians are angry at "god". They used to be a religious, spiritual people; then their climate and natural environment apparently went cataclysmic on them. "God" betrayed them. In Trek lit non-canon terms, Oralius betrayed them. So they destroyed the peaceful church and set up "strong leaders" who kept the people feeling safe and dignified and powerful at the expense of any real safety or dignity or freedom, either for the Cardassian populace or anyone else the Cardassians moved against in their desire to find resources.

Everything they do to "protect" and "safeguard" Cardassia and the Cardassian freedom actually crushes the Cardassians and everything Cardassia used to be. And eventually, those same measures justified as safeguarding the Cardassian populace indirectly lead to half that population vapourized in a Dominion bombardment.

EDIT: I also think this "god betrayed us" idea- unconscious now, likely- explains Cardassian disdain for Bajoran faith. The weak, deluded fools! Don't they know they can't trust their precious prophets to take care of them?! I'll prove it! There! Gul Darhe'el just kicked you. Where are your prophets now? Let that be a lesson in life...

My god: this is brilliant.
It explains so much.
The Cardassian attitude towards the Bajorans has, generally, been that the Bajorans are children who need someone to run their lives, keep them safe and manage their resources and stuff. They have no problem accepting non-Cardassians as equals, but totally reject the idea that the Bajorans are equals. And they give as a symptom of this the faith in the Prophets, even after the Prophets are proven to exist.

The Cardassians know* that, if God exists, he either doesn't care or is actively messing with them, so they believe that anybody who still believes in benevolent gods is ... immature, and deluded.
And they even tried to help the Bajorans "grow up", by showing them that their "benevolent gods" won't come to their aid, but the fools simply won't learn.

*Note that I don't agree with the Cardassians on this point, I simply see how their experience could have led them to that conclusion. And to certainty about it.