Klingon Bird of Prey (whichever class)

[Dukhat]

And didn't we already see a background graphic in DS9 that referred to Martok's ship as being of the K'Vort class?

No, that graphic was not for the Rotarran. It was some other BoP whose escape pod Worf found.

As for the YE alternate universe, I suppose it's possible to use Vor'chas from the prime universe and still call them K'Vort class ships, but why? If they were going to replace the BoPs with new CGI footage, why use a Vor'cha? Why not make a totally new design?

Window size and placement don't exactly work, but if I were to draw the K'vort for real (which I didn't in this book), I'd probably change the sizes and locations, and try to nail some plausible number of decks.

Mr. Sternbach, I wonder if you could answer a question for me. I had heard a rumor that during the filming for YE, the VFX guys actually drilled some small holes in the BoP model to make windows to suggest a much larger ship than the BoP from Star Trek III. The rumor goes on to say that the viewers couldn't see the holes on screen because of the low resolution and small screens of TV sets at the time. Is there any truth to this rumor?

 

[Boris Skrbic]

See here.

 

[Dukhat]

See here.

Thanks. Ironically, I had posted in that topic and had forgotten all about it.

 

[Rick Sternbach]

And didn't we already see a background graphic in DS9 that referred to Martok's ship as being of the K'Vort class?

No, that graphic was not for the Rotarran. It was some other BoP whose escape pod Worf found.

As for the YE alternate universe, I suppose it's possible to use Vor'chas from the prime universe and still call them K'Vort class ships, but why? If they were going to replace the BoPs with new CGI footage, why use a Vor'cha? Why not make a totally new design?

Window size and placement don't exactly work, but if I were to draw the K'vort for real (which I didn't in this book), I'd probably change the sizes and locations, and try to nail some plausible number of decks.

Mr. Sternbach, I wonder if you could answer a question for me. I had heard a rumor that during the filming for YE, the VFX guys actually drilled some small holes in the BoP model to make windows to suggest a much larger ship than the BoP from Star Trek III. The rumor goes on to say that the viewers couldn't see the holes on screen because of the low resolution and small screens of TV sets at the time. Is there any truth to this rumor?

No idea. All of the BOP images that I studied from DS9 appeared to be a normal B'rel class vessel without any additional windows. Perhaps by DS9 they patched up whatever was done during TNG.

Rick

 

[Savious]

OK; so I guess the bottom line is; there never was a good explanation why the wings folded down to attack and up for warp flight.

And, not to sound like a whining geek; but no one agrees with my idea that the wings should have folded down for warp flight, (if the nacelles where concealed in the wings) and horizontal for combat maneuvers.

But, seriously, thanks for all the posts, I did learn a few things here; like it wasn’t just the writers being unknowledgeable about the BoP; but that it was a budget issue which caused the two versions.

 

[The Badger]

Just out of interest...how often do we see BoP's with raised or lowered wings?

Obviously there's a lot of it in TSFS, lowering the wings for combat, raising them to land. The same for TVH, which uses the same ship.

Do the larger K'Vort types raise/lower their wings? It might only the B'rel class scouts that have variable geometry.

 

[Davros]

The original series still has me thinking that the Bird Of Prey is a Romulan ship, not a Klingon one.

 

[Timo]

...Despite there never having been a ship called "Bird of Prey" in Romulan hands, in any of the shows?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Savious]

The Original Series had a Romulan Bird of Prey, which looked nothing like the Klingon one introduced years later in Star Trek III, Search for Spock.

However, as I understand it, originally, the script for Star Trek III, Search for Spock, had it as a Romulan Bird of Prey, and that the Klingon Commander was going to steal it from the Romulans. That particular plot line, however was written out later, and it became just a Klingon Bird of Prey; thereby giving the Klingon’s cloaking technology in which they never possessed before.

 

[Timo]

The Original Series had a Romulan Bird of Prey

No, it didn't.

It had a Romulan vessel in "Balance of Terror" and "Deadly Years" that was known as... "the Romulan vessel". Or, alternately, as "the enemy vessel".

"Bird of Prey" is a designation only ever applied on Klingon starships in the episodes and movies.

thereby giving the Klingon’s cloaking technology in which they never possessed before

We were never exactly told that Klingons wouldn't know how to become invisible. Lately, ENT has given us "retroactive precedent" that they did. And an invisible ship is a good explanation to how the Klingons were able to surprise the war-ready Enterprise in the teaser of "Errand of Mercy"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[B.J.]

In "Balance of Terror", Styles says that the wings are "painted like a bird of prey", which is a simile, not a designation. But in VOY "Drone", a picture of one with the designation "BIRD-OF-PREY" did appear on one of the screens. (See here, near the bottom under "Designation query".)

 

[Savious]

Points well taken; I stand corrected.

 

[kirk55555]

To answer some of the basic points (that haven't already been covered ), Gene Roddenberry was only responsible one specific "rule" which is that there couldn't be an odd number of nacelles. They had to be even to make a balanced warp field, and he seemed to think that having one nacelle was like building a helicopter with only one big rotor, and without the means to counter the rotor's torque so it could fly. Since he wasn't an actual engineer and we've seen designs that either break this rule or ignore other elements, I just ignore it myself. Andrew Probert came up with the rule about nacelles ideally having LoS between them, as with the warbird.

Its funny, most of my favorite ship designs (the canon Niagra class and Freedom class, and the FJ destroyer [Saladin class]) have odd number nacelles. While the rule kind of makes sense, the fact that it seems to have been done more to screw with FJ than to make the universe better/more realistic makes me glad that TNG and later ignored the rule.

As for the BoP, I've never had a problem with there being different sizes. I've always thought it made sense, using a proven design but modifying it for different roles (in this case, increasing the size, probably to make it tougher in a fight). It would have been cool to see different ships than the BoP all the time, but having a bunch of mass produced ships makes sense for a warrior race like the klingons. Producing the same design a lot is easier and faster to build than having a lot of different types of ships.

 

[Unicron]

I'm not entirely convinced of the story that Gene was deliberately trying to screw FJ, as I'm tempted to say the "even numbers" rule may have preceded the publication of the TM and may even have originated while TOS was still in production. But I could be wrong on that as well. Personally I agree with you, and I think one could easily say even pairs is a more optimal arrangement for making a balanced field or achieving better speed. But I see no reason why odd numbers couldn't be useful.

 

[publiusr]

I think someone said the petals of the deflector grid move up as flaperons.

The BoP has it all. Impulse, warp drive as the wing baffles/joints (I suppose) retro-thrusters--and if all else fails--wings.

 

[DEWLine]

Incidentally, the Haynes book is now in certain stores in Canada...and if you don't see it in your favourite bookstore, you should still be able to special-order it.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

I might get the digital edition if it has a search function.

 

[publiusr]

It was only because they didn't have the budget to build several different models; that is, until the Vor'cha model was built

Though I generally don't like tampering, part of me wishes the new TNG-R versions of these episodes will swap the oversized BOPs with Vorchas or Negh'Vars or something.

For "Yesterday's Enterprise," they couldn't use Vor'chas or Negh'Vars because the dialog explicitly stated that the attacking ships were K'Vort class. Therefore if any CGI updating were to be done, a new ship type would have to be created.

And for "The Defector," they couldn't use Negh'Vars (a ship comparable to the warbirds in size) because the Negh'Var class hadn't been created at that time.

However, I don't think we're going to see anything except the original footage of either episode.

That's why they need to pay REL a visit, and have his ship also seen in Way of the Warrior off in the distance.