Kirk's death

[BriGuy]

I don't get this idea that some people have that Kirk - and other Trek characters like Data and Trip - can't die or shouldn't die.

Props to the fact that Kirk died and, as far as canon is concerned, has stayed dead.

And rats to the death-doesn't-mean-anything trend that started with Spock.

I can say now looking back Spock should have stayed dead. And they should've gotten the Excelsior for a ship. Show some growth, change, real-life stuff, rather than stagnation.

Good post..and I agree. Search For Spock guts the emotions of KHAN. Spock should have stayed dead, and they should have given more screen time to the others; Doohan/Takei or brought in someone new.

Rob

The Star Trek movie franchise wouldn't have worked without Spock. There is no way they would have been able to leave him dead.

Bringing Spock backed worked because Kirk lost his son and the Enterprise. When you bring a character back from the dead there has to be some sacrifice to balance the scales in the narrative. Everything just can't go back to the status quo without some hardship.

That may have happened within TSFS, but by the end of TVH, that's pretty much what we ended up with, right back to the status quo. Spock back, Enterprise back. Sorry, but for all the anguish we saw in TSFS, David's death really had no lasting resonance.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Good post..and I agree. Search For Spock guts the emotions of KHAN. Spock should have stayed dead, and they should have given more screen time to the others; Doohan/Takei or brought in someone new.

Rob

The Star Trek movie franchise wouldn't have worked without Spock. There is no way they would have been able to leave him dead.

Bringing Spock backed worked because Kirk lost his son and the Enterprise. When you bring a character back from the dead there has to be some sacrifice to balance the scales in the narrative. Everything just can't go back to the status quo without some hardship.

That may have happened within TSFS, but by the end of TVH, that's pretty much what we ended up with, right back to the status quo. Spock back, Enterprise back. Sorry, but for all the anguish we saw in TSFS, David's death really had no lasting resonance.

And even SAREK got this right when he noted that it had cost Kirk his SHIP...and then..his son.

Rob

 

[adamisme]

my feeling is Generations was a good passing the torch film, it showed Kirk's successor taking control of the Enterprise B, even if it did turn out a disaster he helped save a 100 people+ and 'died' doing it. Then he comes back 80 years later and this time saves millions, if I had the chance to 'die' twice like that saving lives I'd be very happy. I was a little disappointed that he didn't get to die on the Enterprise even if it was the D but he died being a hero so I liked it

 

[RobertScorpio]

my feeling is Generations was a good passing the torch film, it showed Kirk's successor taking control of the Enterprise B, even if it did turn out a disaster he helped save a 100 people+ and 'died' doing it. Then he comes back 80 years later and this time saves millions, if I had the chance to 'die' twice like that saving lives I'd be very happy. I was a little disappointed that he didn't get to die on the Enterprise even if it was the D but he died being a hero so I liked it

Great post Adamisyou...and I totally agree..

Rob

 

[adamisme]

my feeling is Generations was a good passing the torch film, it showed Kirk's successor taking control of the Enterprise B, even if it did turn out a disaster he helped save a 100 people+ and 'died' doing it. Then he comes back 80 years later and this time saves millions, if I had the chance to 'die' twice like that saving lives I'd be very happy. I was a little disappointed that he didn't get to die on the Enterprise even if it was the D but he died being a hero so I liked it

Great post Adamisyou...and I totally agree..

Rob

Cheers Rob, sometimes I'm not as dumb as I look

 

[Jolantru]

Generations the best TNG movie? What were you guys smoking when you watched it? Cause I could use some.

Generations was probably the worst Trek movie ever. There was nothing redeeming about it. It was corny, stupid, boring, and had a shoe string plot that made no sense.

That's why Kirk's death sucked, because it happened in the worst movie ever.

You want a good death scene? Nothing is going to top Star Trek II.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Generations the best TNG movie? What were you guys smoking when you watched it? Cause I could use some.

Generations is the only film where the main characters exihibit realistic or believable mannerisms. Every movie afterwards is Patrick Stewart flying off the handle in yet another Picard/Data action adventure story.

Everybody agrees Nemesis is garbage, so which of the remaining films are better?

 

[DWF]

Earth is a pre-warp civilization too, ATM. If some madman would decide to blow up the Sun, and there were two guys out there who could stop it, you would say "Nah, just let him blow up the Sun."?

I agree Generations is the best Trek film.

Except Picard and the Federation in general are quite willing to let cultures go extinct. The inhabbitants of Boraal II were going to be wiped out until Worf's brother broke the rules. Data also breaks the rules with his actions on Drema IV.

Good intentions get you nothing but planets contaminated by Nazism, Chicago mobsterism, dead eco-systems from anti-matter etc, etc.

Soran was a criminal but I don't see the point going after him since he was adamant about comitting suicide in the Nexus. The Duras sisters did have stolen Fed propertry(and a hostage) so maybe the plot could have been rewritten around that.

Boraal IV was breaking up naturally, that wasn't the case on either Drema IV or Veridian IV, there is something of a difference there.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Generations the best TNG movie? What were you guys smoking when you watched it? Cause I could use some.

Generations was probably the worst Trek movie ever. There was nothing redeeming about it. It was corny, stupid, boring, and had a shoe string plot that made no sense.

That's why Kirk's death sucked, because it happened in the worst movie ever.

You want a good death scene? Nothing is going to top Star Trek II.

Genrerations By far the best TNG movie...

Nemesis/Insurrection were awful..we all KNOW this.

It comes down to FC an GENERATIONS. And FC is just not aging well. GENERATIONS has a better "theme" and has Kirk. FC has a horny Borg babe that ruined the BORG.


Case closed..Generations the best movie.

Rob

 

[RobertScorpio]

Earth is a pre-warp civilization too, ATM. If some madman would decide to blow up the Sun, and there were two guys out there who could stop it, you would say "Nah, just let him blow up the Sun."?

I agree Generations is the best Trek film.

Except Picard and the Federation in general are quite willing to let cultures go extinct. The inhabbitants of Boraal II were going to be wiped out until Worf's brother broke the rules. Data also breaks the rules with his actions on Drema IV.

Good intentions get you nothing but planets contaminated by Nazism, Chicago mobsterism, dead eco-systems from anti-matter etc, etc....

QUOTE]

Another communist party convert. GR would be proud. Now, go make a TIEDYE shirt, and record me a Joan Baez CD...geee...

Rob

 

[Jolantru]

Generations the best TNG movie? What were you guys smoking when you watched it? Cause I could use some.

Generations was probably the worst Trek movie ever. There was nothing redeeming about it. It was corny, stupid, boring, and had a shoe string plot that made no sense.

That's why Kirk's death sucked, because it happened in the worst movie ever.

You want a good death scene? Nothing is going to top Star Trek II.

Genrerations By far the best TNG movie...

Nemesis/Insurrection were awful..we all KNOW this.

It comes down to FC an GENERATIONS. And FC is just not aging well. GENERATIONS has a better "theme" and has Kirk. FC has a horny Borg babe that ruined the BORG.


Case closed..Generations the best movie.

Rob

Well choosing the best TNG movie is like choosing the best septic tank, they all suck.

Generations was horrible. The plot, the acting, the whole movie dragged to the point where Kirk and Picard meet, then Kirk is dead. That's the whole movie.

Generations is nothing more than a self indulgent fanboy film. Characters that no one cares about (like Lursa and B'Etor or Guinan) given major screen time. Rediculous scenes like Data spazing out on his emotion chip or Worf taking a walk on the plank. The movie is the bigges pile of excrement of all the Star Trek films.

First Contact has problems, no doubt, but it also has some good performances (Alfrie Woodard), and the film at least had some heart.

Generations is the biggest joke of a film in the Star Trek Franchise and is the only film that makes me want to watch Star Trek V over and over.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Generations the best TNG movie? What were you guys smoking when you watched it? Cause I could use some.

Generations was probably the worst Trek movie ever. There was nothing redeeming about it. It was corny, stupid, boring, and had a shoe string plot that made no sense.

That's why Kirk's death sucked, because it happened in the worst movie ever.

You want a good death scene? Nothing is going to top Star Trek II.

Genrerations By far the best TNG movie...

Nemesis/Insurrection were awful..we all KNOW this.

It comes down to FC an GENERATIONS. And FC is just not aging well. GENERATIONS has a better "theme" and has Kirk. FC has a horny Borg babe that ruined the BORG.


Case closed..Generations the best movie.

Rob

Well choosing the best TNG movie is like choosing the best septic tank, they all suck.

Generations was horrible. The plot, the acting, the whole movie dragged to the point where Kirk and Picard meet, then Kirk is dead. That's the whole movie.

Generations is nothing more than a self indulgent fanboy film. Characters that no one cares about (like Lursa and B'Etor or Guinan) given major screen time. Rediculous scenes like Data spazing out on his emotion chip or Worf taking a walk on the plank. The movie is the bigges pile of excrement of all the Star Trek films.

First Contact has problems, no doubt, but it also has some good performances (Alfrie Woodard), and the film at least had some heart.

Generations is the biggest joke of a film in the Star Trek Franchise and is the only film that makes me want to watch Star Trek V over and over.

FC gutted the Borg; totally ruined them. And heart? What are you talking about? GENERATION's story about dealing with time has far more heart than FC's revenge filled (moby dick quoting as Khan did..yikes) by the numbers story.

FC, is good. But overated..and as time passes...fading into history as fast as the ford pinto.

Rob

 

[Shazam!]

Generations is brilliant up until Picard entering the Nexus. After that, it could've used a hell of a rewrite.

 

[xman]

^dito that^

...I think, as time passes, GENERATIONS is showing that it was a better film than FIRST CONTACT. ...

Stop smoking crack. AND THAT GOES FOR THE REST OF YOU TOO!

Well firstly Kirk actually died in a alternate timeline because in the first timeline Soren wins and makes it into the Nexus, end of story..... Picard then goes back in time and changes everything, so in effect we have a new time line created by Picard changing the events of the past. ...

You're thinking of another bad screenwriter. (Not bad as in untallented, but bad as in, "Dad dog, don't poop in the house"!)

I also have never understood why so many people think Kirk didn't die well - didn't die a hero's death. ...

For me it amounted to bad writing with the final line being sooooo cheesey. I think Kirk and Shatner deserved better.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Personally, I've always thought that it just wasn't necessary to kill Kirk at all.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^dito that^

...I think, as time passes, GENERATIONS is showing that it was a better film than FIRST CONTACT. ...

Stop smoking crack. AND THAT GOES FOR THE REST OF YOU TOO!

Even at family reunions? Jeez, take away all my fun why dontcha?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think one of the reasons people are annoyed with Kirk's death is the TOS crew got a nice ending at the end of Star Trek VI and after that dragging Kirk back for a TNG movie wasn't really necessary, and don't give me that They had to pass the torch crap that's what McCoy did in Farpoint 7 years earlier if they couldn't keep a movie audience after 7 years without Kirk they were seriouly fucked as a continuing property.

 

[Jolantru]

Generations is brilliant up until Picard entering the Nexus. After that, it could've used a hell of a rewrite.

I thought the whole Enterprise B, scene was underwhealming. Also if those guys were retired, why were they all still in uniform?

 

[Birdog]

Generations is brilliant up until Picard entering the Nexus. After that, it could've used a hell of a rewrite.

I thought the whole Enterprise B, scene was underwhealming. Also if those guys were retired, why were they all still in uniform?

In the US military retired members are allowed to wear their uniforms for certain occasions. I'd imagine Star Fleet is the same.

 

[Ronald Held]

I thought Kirk and Scott were activated fo a day, just to attend the ceremony.