Kirk is a science officer!

[Tyberius]

OK, so I have brought up this issue in a couple of threads.

This thread is to discuss the likelihood of Kirk being a science officer at the academy.

We have heard that Kirk was a stack of books with legs in WNMHGB.

Kirk presumably knows Spock (sciences) and McCoy (sciences) for a very long time.

Does not wear command gold on the bridge.

Kirk appears to wear a blue space suit where Sulu wears a gold (though slightly avocado!) space suit and the other character wears a red space suit.

Any difficultly with this scenario?

Any more to add?

 

[Eric Cheung]

Of course it's possible. But we don't know whether or not the EV suits use the same color coding as the standard uniforms. And the "stack of book with legs" thing could mean anything. Command track officers would certainly need to read lots of books on military strategy, leadership, psychology, or philosophy, as would those in the security track. There would be a lot of overlap between the books engineers, science officers, and doctors would be reading (the above three in that order perhaps representing a sort of Venn Diagram of their required reading).

But based on Kirk's command style I'm inclined to believe that he was always on the command or security track. His command style was broad-based and he seemed to lack empathy for how he taxed Mr. Scott's engines, how hard he pushed himself and others at the objection of both Spock and McCoy, and he often consulted with Spock or other experts for their take on a situation rather than usually being the first to propose scientific solutions to a particular problem--not to mention the rumor that he got someone to help him rig the Kobyashi Maru test. This doesn't discount the possibility that he started as a science officer and found he lacked talent in that area, but had the qualities that would make a superb military strategist.

 

[cbp44189]

OK, so I have brought up this issue in a couple of threads.

This thread is to discuss the likelihood of Kirk being a science officer at the academy.

We have heard that Kirk was a stack of books with legs in WNMHGB.

Kirk presumably knows Spock (sciences) and McCoy (sciences) for a very long time.

Does not wear command gold on the bridge.

Kirk appears to wear a blue space suit where Sulu wears a gold (though slightly avocado!) space suit and the other character wears a red space suit.

Any difficultly with this scenario?

Any more to add?

I haven't seen the space suits yet, got a pic?

 

[Eric Cheung]

It's in the Empire photos thread. This is the first post that shows a good picture of Kirk and Sulu in the shuttle.

 

[Michael]

No, I don't really think that's likely.

 

[ancient]

Very unlikely. The science buff slots are all filled, Kirk is there to kick ass.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

We have heard that Kirk was a stack of books with legs in WNMHGB.

I always took this to mean that Kirk is well-read, much like Picard, and a studious person. Mitchell does say that Kirk likes the "long-haired stuff." It's obvious Kirk has a fondness for books and literature, even quoting passages from time to time ("Balance of Terror," "Space Seed," TFF). He also seems well-studied in other subjects like History ("Patterns of Force," "The Savage Curtain," "The Omega Glory," TCotEF, "Spectre of the Gun").

Kirk gets stereotyped as the "action" hero but I've always thought he is just as thoughtful and introspective as Picard.

Moreover, Kirk could've been a generalist. He studied everything and anything he could get his hands on, be it literature, history, engineering, science, etc. Also, it's possible he did stints in a variety of ship sections before moving on to Command College. During TOS, Kirk is well versed in all the ship's systems and occasionally helps to repair them ("The Doomsday Machine," "Court Martial," GEN). It is also stated in the series that as a Lieutenant, Kirk did stints in Engineering on the Republic ("Court Martial")and at Tactical on the Farragut ("Obsession").

I do, however, recall reading something about Chris Pine stating how he asked himself how could he play this astrophysicist astronaut. It's possible that the new movie will treat Kirk much like the early astronauts-- military men with scientific degrees.

 

[theenglish]

If Kirk took the Kobyashi Maru test in the academy, isn't the implication that he's on some kind of command track.

Season 1 Kirk is also not the womanizing action figure that he becomes later. It is made very clear that he is in love with his ship and only his ship. He is somewhat hesitant with women because he had his heart broken before or he broke hearts. His earlier romances (especially with Carol Marcus) are portrayed as having been serious and intense rather than simple flings, as well.

 

[Saul]

Ah but as reported Kirk wasn't assigned to any ship and it was McCoy who helped him get onto a Ship. So maybe he is medical assistant.

 

[Tyberius]

Very unlikely. The science buff slots are all filled, Kirk is there to kick ass.

So what about the blue space suit?

 

[Eric Cheung]

If Kirk took the Kobyashi Maru test in the academy, isn't the implication that he's on some kind of command track.

We don't know when he took it, whether it was as an undergrad or as a grad student who had switched while in undergrad (pardon the college terminology if there are more appropriate military academy equivalents).

Very unlikely. The science buff slots are all filled, Kirk is there to kick ass.

So what about the blue space suit?

Sometimes a blue space suit is just a blue space suit. If that's all the evidence to support Kirk as a science officer it's extremely circumstantial. Again, with the space suits it could just be he grabbed the blue one. In TMP Kirk and Spock had arbitrarily determined space suit colors that were different from each other.

 

[Tyberius]

Sometimes a blue space suit is just a blue space suit. If that's all the evidence to support Kirk as a science officer it's extremely circumstantial. Again, with the space suits it could just be he grabbed the blue one. In TMP Kirk and Spock had arbitrarily determined space suit colors that were different from each other.

I understand that. In a movie like Mission To Mars, the characters wore colored stripes on their suits. I don't think those denoted anything, though they did serve to differentiate the characters from one another. Coming up from behind someone, you would be able to determine which person that is.

However, the color scheme in ST is iconic.

Sulu wears an avacado/gold suit. The unknown guy, screen left, wears a red suit - classic trek redshirt. And Kirk is in blue.

 

[M'Sharak]

However, the color scheme in ST is iconic.

Sulu wears an avacado/gold suit. The unknown guy, screen left, wears a red suit - classic trek redshirt. And Kirk is in blue.

The unknown guy was tentatively identified here as engineering, which would fit the red suit well enough. Still not sure that makes Kirk a slam dunk for sciences yet, though. I'll wait and see.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Sometimes a blue space suit is just a blue space suit. If that's all the evidence to support Kirk as a science officer it's extremely circumstantial. Again, with the space suits it could just be he grabbed the blue one. In TMP Kirk and Spock had arbitrarily determined space suit colors that were different from each other.

In the original "Memory Wall" sequence in TMP, both Kirk and Spock wore spacesuits that were department color coded-- command white for Kirk and science orange for Spock. In the Trumball revised "Space Walk," Spock still wore a thruster suit that was orange but Kirk got yellow (the same suits were used by Terrell and Chekov in TWOK).

 

[Timo]

Yes, ST2 featured the TMP spacesuits of in a way that indicated they were not color-coded after all. Which makes sense: there were only about a dozen suits for a crew of hundreds in TMP, and the odds of there being personal suits for the skipper and the XO there specifically are pretty low... It may be just a coincidence that some suits are approximately the same color as the division colors of the day.

Let's not forget that when Kirk in "Arena" beamed down with his "tactical people" / "tactical aides", the blueshirted Kelowitz was included. Perhaps a person training in the Command&Conquer line can still wear blue in certain circumstances, perhaps when he or she specializes in abstract tactical planning or other non-field work?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[dillon3001]

I remembered in "The Immunity Syndrome" that Spock's reasoning for Kirk not to go on the shuttlecraft to investigate the space amebo was that he wasn't a "science specialist".

Also in Obsession, when Kirk was on the Farragut, he was the 'young officer at the phaser station' meaning he was probably in either security or weapons control, and those events occured when he was Lt. Kirk and not Captain yet. There's been plenty of times where Kirks used brains and not brawn to solve problems.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SeamusShameless]

Am I the only one who thinks Kirk's EV suit looks black? The only blue I see is the blue light reflecting off of the black vinyl of the suit.

 

[Jefferies]

I always took this to mean that Kirk is well-read, much like Picard, and a studious person. Mitchell does say that Kirk likes the "long-haired stuff." It's obvious Kirk has a fondness for books and literature, even quoting passages from time to time ("Balance of Terror," "Space Seed," TFF). He also seems well-studied in other subjects like History ("Patterns of Force," "The Savage Curtain," "The Omega Glory," TCotEF, "Spectre of the Gun").

Kirk gets stereotyped as the "action" hero but I've always thought he is just as thoughtful and introspective as Picard.

Moreover, Kirk could've been a generalist. He studied everything and anything he could get his hands on, be it literature, history, engineering, science, etc. Also, it's possible he did stints in a variety of ship sections before moving on to Command College. During TOS, Kirk is well versed in all the ship's systems and occasionally helps to repair them ("The Doomsday Machine," "Court Martial," GEN). It is also stated in the series that as a Lieutenant, Kirk did stints in Engineering on the Republic ("Court Martial")and at Tactical on the Farragut ("Obsession").

I like this notion of yours and I fully agree that there is an intellectual depth to Kirk that goes beyond the usual portrayal of him as an action hero and lady's man.

With regard to his specialty, it has been clearly established that he was a tactical officer at least since he was a lieutenant on the Farragut. This was a department that he excelled in, leading to swift promotions. His career development was strongly focused. So, I’m pretty sure James Kirk knew he wanted to be Captain early on. Therefore, I seriously doubt that he wasted his time as a science officer, a specialty in which it takes much longer to get to command positions.

 

[Sector 7]

Am I the only one who thinks Kirk's EV suit looks black? The only blue I see is the blue light reflecting off of the black vinyl of the suit.

The blue looks like it is from the harness holding him in his seat. I don't see Kirk wearing blue the way others are.

 

[Tyberius]

I remembered in "The Immunity Syndrome" that Spock's reasoning for Kirk not to go on the shuttlecraft to investigate the space amebo was that he wasn't a "science specialist".

Also in Obsession, when Kirk was on the Farragut, he was the 'young officer at the phaser station' meaning he was probably in either security or weapons control, and those events occured when he was Lt. Kirk and not Captain yet. There's been plenty of times where Kirks used brains and not brawn to solve problems.

Just my 2 cents.

When I saw that they were not releasing any pics with Kirk in a colored shirt, I thought they were going to have Kirk in operations first and then move into command.

He showed more operational knowledge, more practical application ability than theoretical ability. If we take the story of Kirk's beating the Kobayashi Maru to mean that he reprogrammed the computer (and not just charmed the analyst's panties off) then he had to have some operational knowledge.

However, if you allow for Kirk to be a scientist at first, this would allow for other interesting possibilities. The big three would have had many of the same classes together (maybe less so McCoy - but they would have been in the same silo of learning, if not the same cohort). Kirk and Spock would have had more classes together, so much so that rather than Kirk seeing Spock be teased across the quad, he could be walking along with Spock and confront the teasers.