Khan's child

[los2188]

I've got another question regarding this movie. Contrary to what some may say, I actually remember the child in this movie from way back when I saw it as a child. Since then it has been pretty much cut from every version of this movie that I have seen since then. With that being said, I am not offended with having the scenes of the child in this movie because to me it brings to light Khan's desire to seek revenge on Kirk at any costs obviously including blowing up his on child and I dare to say that I think that's why it was part of the movie to begin with. I'm just curious, does anyone else agree, or are you offended with the thought of having, at the very least, a scene in which the child is about to be blown up with the rest of everyone on the Reliant??

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm glad they cut that bit. It wouldn't add anything to the film, IMHO.

Khan has enough motivation for revenge without bringing a child into the mix.

 

[los2188]

I'm glad they cut that bit. It wouldn't add anything to the film, IMHO.

Khan has enough motivation for revenge without bringing a child into the mix.

I don't know, I mean as I said, to me it helped build the character or explain the character of Khan and how he's willing to do anyone to show that "he's the man," and such, but I do understand what you mean.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'd sooner believe that Joachim was Khan's son than have some random baby in the background. Speaking of which, we don't know about that, either. Except in the (non-canon) novels:

Spoiler: Eugenics Wars

Joachim is actually the son of Joaquin Weiss who is one of Khan's men from TOS. After Joaquin died, Khan raised Joachim as his own.

 

[Maurice]

The only way you could have seen the child is if you'd seen some preview screening (assuming it ever made it even into the workprint). I saw that film opening weekend and so did lots of other people, and none of the prints feature it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I've got another question regarding this movie. Contrary to what some may say, I actually remember the child in this movie from way back when I saw it as a child.

So which secret preview screening of the work print of ST II were you at?

What do you reckon you saw, the child's face at the porthole/window? So did Chekov scream? What was supposed to happen after that scene was the infamous Terrell-falling-down-the-hill.

Since then it has been pretty much cut from every version of this movie that I have seen since then.

"Pretty much cut" seems to suggest that you've seen the scene again since?

I think that's why it was part of the movie to begin with.

The face-at-the-window was simply a typical horror-film scare scene, rather like McCoy''s walking into the bloodied hand. It wasn't there to make us think about Khan's love for his child. The only thing that was going to tell us that it's Khan's child was the painted family portrait that was created as set dressing, but unused.

Memories can be funny things. If Khan's child was a part of some versions of that film on opening night, it would have been mentioned in the many film reviews of the day.

Similarly, a friend of mine was at opening night of ST III in Perth, while on vacation from Sydney. When she got back home, she was shocked that her next trip to see ST III was missing the little Vulcan girl wishing the regenerated Spock to "Live long and prosper". At least Katherine Blum was listed in the credits, but it seems that scene, if it truly was in that Perth print, was missing from all other copies of the film.

Keep in mind that a limited number of "Wrath of Khan" prints had opening titles that deliberately lacked the "II" in the title. These were only used in the US for a few weeks, they they were pulled to travel the world for other capital cities' premiere weeks. But even these prints lacked Khan's child.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Memories can be funny things. If Khan's child was a part of some versions of that film on opening night, it would have been mentioned in the many film reviews of the day.

I don't know. I think the filmmakers liked to play a bit of silly buggers with us back then. I, for instance, am damned near positive the cut of Star Wars I saw way back when included a longer conversation between Biggs and Luke before they took off to blow up the Death Star. And you've got to admit, showing different cuts here and there to select audiences would have been a hell of a way to generate long-term buzz. Not sure if the Trek showrunners would have had the savvy to come up with the tactic, but Lucas is nothing if not a marketing genius, and maybe the others just followed his lead.

 

[los2188]

Believe it or not, and I have no reason to lie, but I do remember seeing the child. It was on HBO back when I was still living in Alaska. I remember it clearly as does a buddy of mine when he saw it with me. Memories are funny and can lie, but until I came to this site...what, a month ago, I had thought nothing of the child, I never spoke of it to anyone, with anyone just like most of the scenes in the movie until I read about there being some question to the scene. Take it for what it's worth, but I know I remember it. But the point for me bringing it up was I was curious as to who would like it in the movie and who wouldn't like it and why...that's all.

 

[los2188]

"Pretty much cut" seems to suggest that you've seen the scene again since?

And no, when I say pretty much, I am not suggesting that I've seen the scene again, but I do believe that others have seen it somewhere out there.

Granted I am still kind of new here, but another example of a scene that I have never read about or talked about was in Nemesis where LaForge and Worf where in Data's quarters going thru all of his things and putting them away. I know that scene existed and I saw it, but I've never seen it on the net or any dvd/video. But you are correct, memories can fail you if you want to believe you saw or did something.

 

[Mark 2000]

I had not seen A New Hope in 10 years when I was a teenager. Because of the storybook I could have sworn to Krom that the Biggs scene at Toshi Station was in the movie. In fact, until there was internet I though the TV station had cut it out themselves.

Memory is tricky.

 

[Maurice]

The problem is: the way films were produced for exhibition make this a virtually impossibility.

The film is edited and re-edited until they have a locked version, at which point all the sound reels have to be tweaked to fit (a laborious process in the pre-digital world). You then have to have the prints made. These prints are all identical. There's no variation between prints for different theaters.

So, prior to home video or recut versions for TV the only really different versions of most films were preview screenings. This is how a bunch of people in San Jose saw the original unhappy ending of Little Shop of Horrors. Kubrick cut a bunch of material from 2001, but it opened as a "roadshow" picture on very few screens so it was a simpler matter to make a shortened version to replace it and also to go into wider release.

I brought up the topic of this deleted sequence in this thread: The Rugrat of Khan.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The problem is: the way films were produced for exhibition make this a virtually impossibility.

The film is edited and re-edited until they have a locked version, at which point all the sound reels have to be tweaked to fit (a laborious process in the pre-digital world). You then have to have the prints made. These prints are all identical. There's no variation between prints for different theaters.

So, prior to home video or recut versions for TV the only really different versions of most films were preview screenings. This is how a bunch of people in San Jose saw the original unhappy ending of Little Shop of Horrors. Kubrick cut a bunch of material from 2001, but it opened as a "roadshow" picture on very few screens so it was a simpler matter to make a shortened version to replace it and also to go into wider release.

I brought up the topic of this deleted sequence in this thread: The Rugrat of Khan.

If it's as much of "a laborious process", couldn't un-re-edited versions have gotten out?

A lot more likely in 1982 than today, at least.

 

[Maurice]

Possible but very unlikely given how the process of making the prints works..

 

[Blip]

In a photo-novel published for TWOK that there was a shot of the Genesis Device in Reliant's tranporter room, that also showed a small child on the transporter pad. Could this be related?

If I could drive halfway up the country and pull out that novel from storage, I'd be able to prove it.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! Jr.

 

[Blip]

Actually, it seems there is further evidence, here:

http://mystartrekscrapbook.blogspot.com/2009/08/man-who-saved-star-trek.html

Scroll down and you'll come to the photo of Nick Meyer directing Khan's infant son.

 

[Doug Otte]

Actually, it seems there is further evidence, here:

http://mystartrekscrapbook.blogspot.com/2009/08/man-who-saved-star-trek.html

Scroll down and you'll come to the photo of Nick Meyer directing Khan's infant son.

Thanks, but the question isn't whether the baby scene(s) were filmed, but whether they made it into any release prints of the film that were shown to any audiences. It's common knowledge that the baby was filmed; however, the consensus based upon evidence is that those scenes were never released or viewed by an audience.

Doug

 

[Dukhat]

In a photo-novel published for TWOK that there was a shot of the Genesis Device in Reliant's tranporter room, that also showed a small child on the transporter pad. Could this be related?

If I could drive halfway up the country and pull out that novel from storage, I'd be able to prove it.

I own that novel (purple cover, B&W photos), and there's no picture of the child anywhere in that book.

 

[Blip]

In a photo-novel published for TWOK that there was a shot of the Genesis Device in Reliant's tranporter room, that also showed a small child on the transporter pad. Could this be related?

If I could drive halfway up the country and pull out that novel from storage, I'd be able to prove it.

I own that novel (purple cover, B&W photos), and there's no picture of the child anywhere in that book.

Sounds like a different publication - mine was blue, and had B&W predominantly, but with some colour shots towards the centre.

 

[Blip]

Actually, it seems there is further evidence, here:

http://mystartrekscrapbook.blogspot.com/2009/08/man-who-saved-star-trek.html

Scroll down and you'll come to the photo of Nick Meyer directing Khan's infant son.

Thanks, but the question isn't whether the baby scene(s) were filmed, but whether they made it into any release prints of the film that were shown to any audiences. It's common knowledge that the baby was filmed; however, the consensus based upon evidence is that those scenes were never released or viewed by an audience.

Doug

Knowledge to you maybe... I wouldn't call it common though.