Khan or no Khan?

[Sharr Khan]

Not really as I said time ripples. The game board is already new so don't expect how things transpired in the main timeline to much matter.

While the desired effect may be the same, time doesn't really ripple according to these movies. It sort of ripples but mends itself. The writers themselves have said that many things remain constant. So technically it doesn't really follow any rules except to follow the whims of the writers. Like I said, the effect is the same. They could easily say X happens to Botany Bay, where X can be just about anything, and they lean on that crutch.

It's hard to say what events could have set things in motion from a logical point of view. They should probably flesh out the back story quite a bit if they go some crazy different route with it.

I'd like to see Khan as head of an empire with augment troops to boot and an actual face to face off between the two at the climax of said film.

It sounds interesting, but is it even plausible?

You can't state its really up to the whims of the writers and than ask if its even plausible. By whatever logic they care to get there, it can be made to be plausible.

Speed of plot and all.

There's decades worth of time plus a fairly smart guy who given the resources could build himself a smallish empire and who knows what sorts of tech he's pirated along the way. Given this would be a not so insane Khan and all.

I'd love to see a fleet of Botany Bay class ships equipped with warp and phasers.

 

[thumbtack]

I'm fairly sure no real life Eugenics Wars took place.

You had your mini-blinds closed that day.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

My basic feeling and bottom line is that I have no strong opinions, objections or preferences about what the next film should be like or should address. I just so enormously enjoyed the last one that I'm happy for these people to make whatever kind of film they so choose without letting a few thousand Trekkies vet and approve or disapprove of it, with considerable confidence that they'll make a movie I'll like.

 

[PantherFiction]

Khan's the man ​

And by this I'm agreeing with the whole empire thing with him, it would be pretty good.
I'd also love to hear the brilliant words "Khan!" being echoed throughout the universe once again in this day in age.

 

[Lucien]

part of the reason the first movie took place the way it did so they would no longer be restrained by "canon".

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Yes, I do want, unlike you.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

part of the reason the first movie took place the way it did so they would no longer be restrained by "canon".

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

You're wrong, and they did the right thing.

 

[pookha]

to devon
if you just use the character you have to pay some money to the author or to authors estate.
i dont remember off hand who wrote space seed.

Don't have to stay true to canon, that issues been overcome and part of the reason the first movie took place the way it did so they would no longer be restrained by "canon".

So "staying true to canon" in no longer an issue. On purpose.

It is, because how did Nero's time travel affect Khan?

even though i dont want khan this could be easy.
for khan's ship to be so far out there has been theories kicked around that his ship had to at some time been caught up in some type of ftl space eddie or some other type of phenomena.

for some reason the events of the last move affects the path of the ship.
and it is flung out near a world.

be funny if it was organia.
the organians would take it for awhile.
finally get sick of him and exile him themselves..

 

[archeryguy1701]

part of the reason the first movie took place the way it did so they would no longer be restrained by "canon".

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

And I still stand by the belief that putting people in charge who were willing to flip canon the bird is one of the best things to happen to Star Trek, regardless of what their reasons were. It is possible for something to be weighed down by its own lore so much that it isn't fun or interesting anymore. Could they have shaken things up through means other than jumping canon? Sure. But this is one way to do it and it seems to have worked.

 

[FarStrider]

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

And what makes you say that?

They knew enough about canon to know that almost no one would be interested in the adventures of Lt. Kirk on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick. . .or that making a movie for those interested in such a prequel would would be a big waste of time and money. . . they knew enough to write a story that got the mainstream interested in the Star Trek franchise again. . . fun, exciting Star Trek beats boring constrained Star Trek any day. . .

~FS

 

[pookha]

part of the reason the first movie took place the way it did so they would no longer be restrained by "canon".

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

they knew more about canon then some fans who get canon confused with fanon.
and that even tos had its own canon issues.
but we have gone down this path so many times.

 

[JarodRussell]

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

And what makes you say that?

They knew enough about canon to know that almost no one would be interested in the adventures of Lt. Kirk on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick. . .or that making a movie for those interested in such a prequel would would be a big waste of time and money. . . they knew enough to write a story that got the mainstream interested in the Star Trek franchise again. . . fun, exciting Star Trek beats boring constrained Star Trek any day. . .

~FS

A lot of after-the-fact arguments. Nobody knows (no, not even you) how such a movie would have been received.

Could they have shaken things up through means other than jumping canon? Sure.

You mean like destroying Vulcan and Romulus in a TNG era movie? Of course they could have done that. Faster editing, shaky cam and more action? Dito. There's nothing in this movie that needed a reboot. Anyone who says that they needed Kirk and Spock for it to be successful cannot prove that. Captain Sheppard and Commander Xon of the USS Enterprise-F could have worked as well, I say. It depends far more on the impact of the trailers and other promotional items and if the movie hits the nerve than on the name of the characters.

 

[Pauln6]

Jason Bourne didn't have to be Bond or use any of the gadgetry or explosions used in recent Bond movies to be a success. The story was good and the movies were exciting in their own right.

I don't dislike the fact that they decided to reboot the franchise. However, since it isn't a straight reboot I wish that they had been more careful in retaining some of the technological elements of TOS. I don't really want to see vastly more powerful technology that dwarfs TNG, just tweaked TOS technology.

I think they should tease us with Khan for at least one movie, assuming that the actors may move on after 3 movies, they could certainly use Khan to bump off some of the regular characters in 3, although Bond can be recast, so I'd be just as happy if they recast roles as and when they need to.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

They weren't necessarily "restrained" by canon as much as they were unwilling to write within the canon because they didn't know much about it.

And what makes you say that?

They knew enough about canon to know that almost no one would be interested in the adventures of Lt. Kirk on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick. . .or that making a movie for those interested in such a prequel would would be a big waste of time and money. . . they knew enough to write a story that got the mainstream interested in the Star Trek franchise again. . . fun, exciting Star Trek beats boring constrained Star Trek any day. . .

~FS

Absolutely Right(TM).

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I wish that they had been more careful in retaining some of the technological elements of TOS. I don't really want to see vastly more powerful technology that dwarfs TNG, just tweaked TOS technology.

There's no difference between TOS and TNG technology. For story purposes every bit of it does the same thing.

 

[Pauln6]

Not quite true - dilithium is freely available in TNG. The speed and size of some of the NuTrek ships seems greater than TNG. Kirk's shirt seems made of sturdier fabric.

 

[Lucien]

You're wrong, and they did the right thing.

What a well thought out reply.

And what makes you say that?

They knew enough about canon to know that almost no one would be interested in the adventures of Lt. Kirk on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick. . .or that making a movie for those interested in such a prequel would would be a big waste of time and money. . . they knew enough to write a story that got the mainstream interested in the Star Trek franchise again. . . fun, exciting Star Trek beats boring constrained Star Trek any day. . .

~FS

And what makes you think they know about Kirk's posting on the Farragut in the first place? It seems the extent of their research was watching some TOS in their living room and eating pizza. I wouldn't be surprised if, to the writers, Memory Alpha was just "That one place in that one episode with all the information and stuff".

I happen to prefer "boring, constrained" Star Trek over fun, exciting Star Trek because when I watch Star Trek I don't expect non-stop action and sex and explosions and beautiful people. I liked Star Trek XI as a movie, but as a Star Trek movie I didn't care for it because it lacked a lot of the elements that made me enjoy Star Trek in the first place.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^You do know that Bob Orci, one of the writers, is a die-hard Trekkie with a gigantic collection of Star Trek novels, right?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You're wrong, and they did the right thing.

What a well thought out reply.

Well, it was as much effort as the original comment deserves at this stage of the game.

Not quite true - dilithium is freely available in TNG. The speed and size of some of the NuTrek ships seems greater than TNG. Kirk's shirt seems made of sturdier fabric.

All of which are differences that make no difference. Ships still break down when the plot calls for it, no ship can go faster than the plot needs it to but can go as fast as the story calls for, and and clothing rips or doesn't rip as the show demands.

 

[Pauln6]

Not quite true - dilithium is freely available in TNG. The speed and size of some of the NuTrek ships seems greater than TNG. Kirk's shirt seems made of sturdier fabric.

All of which are differences that make no difference. Ships still break down when the plot calls for it, no ship can go faster than the plot needs it to but can go as fast as the story calls for, and and clothing rips or doesn't rip as the show demands.

Bless - you and your circular logic. Still, it's because many people share your indifference to consistent details that the writers often don't bother about them. They say that people are promoted to the point of incompetence and that logic is just as true of Trek writers. I think if you don't try to hold them up to high standards they get lazier and lazier until the final sequel is so shit not even the indifferent fans can stomach it. Mark my words!