Khan and Marla First Interracial Kiss on Star Trek

[johnnybear]

Whatever race Lt.Marlena Moreau came from is unimportant! She was very sexy and a great character for the series!
JB

 

[uniderth]

I thought BarBara Luna had some Jewish in her as well?

I'm telling you know it is taking all my will power to resist the joke.

Most Filipinos are Malayo-Polynesian, ethnically (from what I just read) Filpinos identify mostly with their Malayo origins.

Not sure that it's very relevant, but the term "Filipino" originally only applied to people of Spanish descent born on the Philipines Islands. It didn't refer to aboriginal natives until much later. Probably a result of repeated intermixing over the centuries, until most people were technically "Filipinos."

I've heard the thing before about how scientists have decided that there is no such thing as race. I haven't read why they say so, but clearly people from different parts of the world have different facial and body features, and I think we do need a word to describe that, so race seems to work. Eliminating racism is not about pretending differences don't exist, it's about accepting the differences that clearly do exist.

I think we need a different word. "Race" just has so much cultural baggage that it will be impossible to give it a defined preferred meaning. The problem is that nationality/tribal(ality) and genetic history are so interwoven. In places like the United States of America there is so much diversity so ethnicity is not tied to nationality, but in the Philippines ethnicity and nationality are tied together. So again, what criteria do we use to label people? (Yes, that is a dig at the idea of labeling people).

I still don't get it. I'm Caucasian. In my mind that means I share certain genetic traits with others who are also called Caucasian but are different from those we call African or Asian. That was not arbitrarily created by anyone. It is what it is. Doesn't mean anyone's better than anyone else, but we are genetically different.

But what is an Asian? The Caucasus are in Asia. The middle-eastern areas are part of Asia. Russia is part of Asia. So What is an "Asian?"

For that matter what is a continent?

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Whatever race Lt.Marlena Moreau came from is unimportant! She was very sexy and a great character for the series!
JB

Preach it!
Hallelujah!
Amen and Amen!

 

[Kor]

I think the "first interracial kiss" thing between Kirk and Uhura is oversold, for a variety of reasons. But Ricardo Montalban clearly kisses Marla McGivers in "Space Seed," long before the Kirk and Uhura moment. Montalban was Mexican American, and while many Latino/Hispanics consider themselves white, not all do. In addition, he's supposed to be playing an Asian character. Is this moment really the first interracial kiss on Star Trek? Or do we fall into the tired idea that race is only Black and White?

Montalban was not of mestizo Mexican origin. His parents emigrated to Mexico from Spain. That being said, in interviews he did speak of his experiences being discriminated against in the show business industry as a "brown person" because he was from Mexico.

It's even been suggested that William Shatner and Barbara Luna shared an interracial kiss in "Mirror, Mirror." Barbara Luna is of Italian, Hungarian, Spanish, Portuguese and Filipino descent. Are any of those a "race"? It just shows how silly and arbitrary the whole concept of "race" is. The more you try and pin it down, the more it eludes your grasp and slips away, like a greased pig.

On the other hand, we multiracial people have gotten rather tired of how we have long been dismissed and ignored in popular discourse on race/ethnicity, as if we basically "don't count" in such discussion. To me, Shatner and Luna's kiss absolutely counts for something when it comes to this whole topic.

I think we need a different word. "Race" just has so much cultural baggage that it will be impossible to give it a defined preferred meaning. The problem is that nationality/tribal(ality) and genetic history are so interwoven. In places like the United States of America there is so much diversity so ethnicity is not tied to nationality, but in the Philippines ethnicity and nationality are tied together. So again, what criteria do we use to label people? (Yes, that is a dig at the idea of labeling people).

Indeed, in some areas there is a long-standing notion that "nation" and "race/ethnicity" are intrinsically linked, rather than being separate and distinct concepts. This leads to continued difficulties for those who legally gain citizenship/nationality, but are still perceived as not belonging to the nation: http://apjjf.org/-Arudou-Debito/1743/article.html

Kor

 

[scotpens]

I thought BarBara Luna had some Jewish in her as well?

Oh, now I see what you did there!

I'm a bit slow on the uptake this week.

 

[johnnybear]

Oh, now I see what you did there!

I'm a bit slow on the uptake this week.

I'm sure that I read that quote on IMDB about her being Jewish! I was a bit confused myself I can tell you as I thought it was a religion rather than a classification!
JB

 

[Kor]

I'm sure that I read that quote on IMDB about her being Jewish! I was a bit confused myself I can tell you as I thought it was a religion rather than a classification!
JB

There is a significant ethnic/cultural component to Jewish identity, which goes beyond religious beliefs. Einstein and Freud didn't stop being Jewish just because they did not follow the religion of Judaism.

Kor

 

[scotpens]

I'm sure that I read that quote on IMDB about her being Jewish! I was a bit confused myself I can tell you as I thought it was a religion rather than a classification!

I thought it was a double-entendre reference to her on-screen relationship with the Jewish William Shatner.

Apparently uniderth and I both have dirty minds.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

There's an implied kiss, but shot in such a way that you don't see their lips touching.

Shouldn't count then.

The same way sex scenes don't count if the plug doesn't go in the socket?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^Yeah, it's a bit of a weird suggestion, because many of the most famous classic Hollywood kisses were deliberately shot to obscure any actual mouth-to-mouth contact as well. It was common practice, regardless of the ethnicity of the actors/characters in question.

-MMoM

 

[johnnybear]

Well whatever it was Shatner always got right in there at kissing time! Straight after the droozy love music!
JB

 

[Poltargyst]

The same way sex scenes don't count if the plug doesn't go in the socket?

I think we all know how Captain Kirk kisses women, and that is NOT a kiss.

As for your analogy, if I was promised to see the first interracial intercourse on tv, and the plug didn't go in the socket, then no, that's not intercourse either.

 

[Satron]

I think we all know how Captain Kirk kisses women, and that is NOT a kiss.

As for your analogy, if I was promised to see the first interracial intercourse on tv, and the plug didn't go in the socket, then no, that's not intercourse either.

The footage they used in the episode does not show a kiss. You are right. But it is supposed to be a kiss. The director of the episode and/or NBC didn't want to use one of the several actual kisses they filmed with Shatner and Nichols.

 

[Poltargyst]

The footage they used in the episode does not show a kiss. You are right. But it is supposed to be a kiss. The director of the episode and/or NBC didn't want to use one of the several actual kisses they filmed with Shatner and Nichols.

If we're going to get all excited and call this the first interracial kiss on tv...we kinda actually need to see a kiss.

 

[johnnybear]

I thought Shatner was kissing these gals myself! So what was he really doing to them?
JB

 

[Greg Cox]

Montalban was not of mestizo Mexican origin. His parents emigrated to Mexico from Spain. That being said, in interviews he did speak of his experiences being discriminated against in the show business industry as a "brown person" because he was from Mexico.

I dimly recall an interview in which Montalban wryly lamented that he had never actually been cast as a Mexican. He had played Spaniards, Cubans, Argentinians, Indians, etc., but never a Mexican.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought Shatner was kissing these gals myself! So what was he really doing to them?
JB

Going through the motions and the camera cuts before any contact. The other kisses are probably real but the interracial aspect was controversial. Shatner details more in "Star Trek Memories."

 

[FormerLurker]

I dimly recall an interview in which Montalban wryly lamented that he had never actually been cast as a Mexican. He had played Spaniards, Cubans, Argentinians, Indians, etc., but never a Mexican.

The closest he probably got was playing the evil alcalde off of Frank Langella's Zorro.

 

[johnnybear]

It looked to me that he was kissing the ladies and enjoying himself immensely!
JB