Kes's Birthday

[2takesfrakes]

It's all opinion. I agree with Katie about her voice

Of course, it's all opinion -- this is not a fact-finding investigative committee, it's a bloody STAR TREK fan forum! Kes is such a sweetheart ... so why the controversy? Some of it revolves around her Ocampan aging mechanism. Some of it around Neelix. And yes, some of it even goes down to the level of not caring for Jennifer Lien's portrayal. And, then, of course, there's that 'vocal' segment of the fanbase who prefers Kes' replacement, altogether. Again, it's all opine ... and attitude ...

 

[Sophie74656]

Of course, it's all opinion -- this is not a fact-finding investigative committee, it's a bloody STAR TREK fan forum! Kes is such a sweetheart ... so why the controversy? Some of it revolves around her Ocampan aging mechanism. Some of it around Neelix. And yes, some of it even goes down to the level of not caring for Jennifer Lien's portrayal. And, then, of course, there's that 'vocal' segment of the fanbase who prefers Kes' replacement, altogether. Again, it's all opine ... and attitude ...

To be fair, I've been on message boards for a while, and the more vocal group has not been the group that prefers Seven. The more vocal group has been the Kes lovers. In my experience the Seven fans are more accepting of other opinions. However It's been pretty consistant that the Kes fans have a very hard time accepting any comment regarding Kes or Lien that is not completely positive, and they will resort to fights and personal attacks.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I can't help but wonder what Kes would say, knowing that fans were getting into arguments over her. She wouldn't be at all happy about it, I suspect. That's not what Kes was about. She loves everybody - she's such a sweetheart. And as fond as I am of Kes, there are aspects about her character which elude me. Like how she's so steeped in magic.

I'm not really into wizards and love potions and soothsayers and ... and so forth. For example, how does one bracket the abilities of a sorcerer? Just how far is too far, before he stops being a sorcerer and becomes another type of character, all together? Can a wizard fly in outerspace without special headgear? And if not, what's stopping it? How do you bracket magical powers? I've never managed to get around that one ...

But the only real problem I had with the Kes character was that she was with Neelix. It was an obscenity only toppled by Harry Kim's impregnating her daughter in another timeline. I mean ... just how many injustices must be visited upon Kes in this series? Before that question could be answered fully, she was tossed aside ... and replaced by some other. So, it's a mixed bag, there.

 

[Sophie74656]

I can't help but wonder what Kes would say, knowing that fans were getting into arguments over her. She wouldn't be at all happy about it, I suspect. That's not what Kes was about. She loves everybody - she's such a sweetheart. And as fond as I am of Kes, there are aspects about her character which elude me. Like how she's so steeped in magic.

I'm not really into wizards and love potions and soothsayers and ... and so forth. For example, how does one bracket the abilities of a sorcerer? Just how far is too far, before he stops being a sorcerer and becomes another type of character, all together? Can a wizard fly in outerspace without special headgear? And if not, what's stopping it? How do you bracket magical powers? I've never managed to get around that one ...

But the only real problem I had with the Kes character was that she was with Neelix. It was an obscenity only toppled by Harry Kim's impregnating her daughter in another timeline. I mean ... just how many injustices must be visited upon Kes in this series? Before that question could be answered fully, she was tossed aside ... and replaced by some other. So, it's a mixed bag, there.

I know we disagree on this....you believe that Neelix brought her down, I think the opposite. i think their pairing brought Neelix down.

But I do agree with you about the "magic". I'm not a fan when all of a sudden there is a new ability that convenietly appears one day. One of the things I didn't like about Odo and Jadzia.

 

[Lynx]

To be fair, I've been on message boards for a while, and the more vocal group has not been the group that prefers Seven. The more vocal group has been the Kes lovers. In my experience the Seven fans are more accepting of other opinions. However It's been pretty consistant that the Kes fans have a very hard time accepting any comment regarding Kes or Lien that is not completely positive, and they will resort to fights and personal attacks.

I have to disagree here.

I've also been on different message boards for a while and the most obnoxious fans I've ever encountered were four Kes haters who terrorized the startrek.com forum for a while. They were constantly provoking conflicts over the subject of Kes and went so far that they created dual accounts to attack the actress, the character and those who liked and defended the character/actress.

When that forum finally was cleaned up, they dissapeared and their dual accounts too.

In my case it became personal, not so funny to access the forum and find personal insults and accusations every time. OK, I wasn't the nicest guy around either so I gave them back with the same methods.

I must also state that when I started posting on different forums, I did run into some not so nice Seven Of Nine fans too which was one of the reasons I started to really dislike the character. I remember my first post about the Kes subject when I just stated that I wanted to see the character back on Voyager (this was in 1998) and some jerks started to tell me what a bad character Kes was and how incredible good Seven was. I guess that "angry Lynx" was born around that time even if I started my carreer with another username.

However, I've encountered some really nice fans of Seven too who actually made me change my mind about the character. I remember one from this forum who I initially had a lot of conflicts with but who I actually learned to respect and that person made me see Seven in a different light.

I must also state that, thanks to those in charge of the show who kicked out Kes and then brought her back only to try to destroy her, the Kes fans always have to fight from a difficult position and therefore might be a bit volatile. It's not that fun to have the official "canon" and that season six episode smacked in one's face everytime this subject turns up.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Are my friend and I the only ones in this galaxy who enjoy Kes just as much as Seven and think that they were both brilliant? So it would seem.
And before anyone starts the debate of who should have been thrown out and who shouldn't: this is my opinion of ALL the 10 main characters: they were ALL brilliant (my friend would second me if she spoke English).

 

[LonelyGirl]

I have to agree with you, Lynx. Despite not being around this whole thing until this past year I was absolutely shocked by the negative attention that's been shown over many years toward this lady. I don't understand it at all. I certainly hope it is in no way a contributing factor to her issues. I would think it would have to hurt very much and it makes me a bit angry to see anyone treated that way.

 

[Sophie74656]

To each their own....As you know I'm not a fan of the character and I think the show greatly improved when Seven came aboard. But I don't think that has anything to do with Kes leaving, those two things just happened at the same time. To me Kes was fairly insignificant, her presence or absence didn't do much either way. If her contract had been renewed and she had stayed all seven seasons I'd probably still feel that the show became much better in the later seasons.