Is there any sort of general consensus as to whether Beyond took a bit more time to let things breathe than the first two films? When I think of '09 and ID, I mostly think action-action-action, whereas with Beyond I better remember things like Kirk and McCoy talking before the arrival at Yorktown, and similar character beats.
Kelvin Universe Warp Speeds
- Thread starter Captain Thomas Wilson
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I don't know about consensus but I would tend to agree that Beyond was paced a little bit slower, except for the end. I personally think that 09 and ID have excellent character moments but the pacing doesn't let them breathe.
I felt Beyond was more shallow action compared to ST'09 and ID, which had more meaningful emotional beats.
And shoutings?
Huge character-defining stuff for Spock in the first movie, the amazing "coming out" scene with his father in the transporter room following Amanda's death. The ending where the elder Spock tells him to "put aside logic, do what feels right". The second movie where Kirk loses the Enterprise and then Pike, constantly realising he's more and more out of his depth and then Spock realises what he had in Kirk's friendship just as it's too late... (less said about the awful "Khaaaaaan!" the better, though)
Beyond has Spock reminisce about his elder self (really just Leonard Nimoy) which is sweet and touching but it's not on the same level of intensity. Say what you will about JJ Abrams, his emotional beats hit hard.
I honestly think Kirk has some of the best character and emotional beats in these films. 09 has a palpable sense of loss when Kirk and Spock Prime discuss Kirk's father. Definitely the scene with Kirk having to apologize to the crew when Marcus is about to blow up the Enterprise.
Also, and I stumbled upon this on another site, Kirk becomes more and more caring towards Carol Marcus as the film progresses. When Khan beams them back to the brig there is a moment where Kirk immediately goes over to check on Carol and then the ship is hit.
I like Beyond well enough but Kirk's emotional moment is his drink with Bones.
Well, Kirk being unconscious for a short while is fairly unlikely as a thing; would McCoy really have calculated the dose that way? But yeah, Sulu's comment is the problematic bit here. And no, Chekov's last-minute PA to the crew is not: Kirk did that all the time, if he even bothered to inform his crew about upcoming or current events at all.
Then again, Sulu doesn't say anything about reaching, merely that they are currently at maximum warp. Perhaps he's obligated to say that every thirty minutes or something, there being no Scotty there to whine about 'em poor bairns?
...And to say "at least we are moving again", as if that were news to him. That is, he seems to be muttering to himself in order to reassure himself; Khan just overhears.
But Scotty also quips that all the action, to Qo'noS and back, has taken place within one day. So the trip out can't have been all that slow, either. Not mere minutes long, though, not necessarily. And it's certainly a case of careful-and-stealthy out, all-stops-out-emergency back in.
...Why? Marcus could park with precision when he warped to Kirk's comfort zone in Klingon space. If Sulu chose to brake "early", it could have been 201 km off Earth rather than 200.
The problem here is that the ship seems not to be under Sulu's control when emerging, but spinning madly - yet she emerges from warp in the Sol system, rather than fifteen lightyears outside it. Why and how did Marcus force Sulu out of warp that close to the destination?
And then cheer for their champion who saved Earth from that juvenile terrorist.
How mysterious is that ship, really? Marcus had a desktop model of her in his office. Probably those are being churned out in sufficient numbers already for Marcus to launch his war, and Kirk just happens to be one of those who don't need to know. Doesn't mean Marcus would get into trouble for not telling.
...Such as fifty million years? The ship moves very literally at a walking pace when we watch her brave the rubble (I could certainly outrun her on a good day) - and it's rubble all the way from Yorktown to Altamid! Or at least we see the same superdense rubble right next to both Yorktown and Altamid.
Basically, we're forced to think that Yorktown is deep in the Altamid system, and indeed has been built there for the specific purpose of exploring the nebula, once navigation systems make it safe for things other than automated probes (and Krall no doubt made it look worse than it was, by sending false signals back via the Magellan channels). The nebula surrounding the iner system then is much less than an AU thick, and has its densest parts at the edges or something.
That Kirk could do even half a minute of warping inside the "nebula" seems out of the question.
Timo Saloniemi
The one thing do appreciate about the warp in the Kelvin Universe is how it looks when the ship goes to warp, now that's cool.
I loved that Discovery season 2 borrowed the Kelvin universe warp speed effect.
Good, it just works well. Not sure about the blue particle trail at the end of Into Darkness though.
That looked great in 3D
Warp speeds aside, I think one of STIDs biggest offences is the Enterprise dropping out of warp near the moon - I mean, when was sulu going to take the ship out of warp had the vengeance not showed up? He was leaving it a bit late considering how fast they were going wasn't he? Also, the whole sequence of a ship bring in the moon's orbit then falling to earth was just dumb. I don't expect trek to be exactly scientifically accurate, but this was a really glaring error for me.
Now I think about it, your spot on with that.
"The Naked Time" had the Enterprise fall out of orbit similarly impossibly quickly. I give ID a pass becase the sequence was utterly spectacular.
Spectacular it certainly is, and I generally really like STID and rank it very highly. I just wish that whole sequence had been rewritten to make sense.
As much as I love the Kelvin Universe films I think they are just one rewrite being fully excellent.
As said, Marcus cut it even closer when parking right against Kirk's front bumper, back in Klingon space. Precision downwarping seems trivially easy: Sulu could have planned on stopping on the SF HQ lawn for all we know, with the primary hull gangway level with the window of the admiral in charge of the Security Division.
Well, our heroes were trying rather desperately to get to Earth. They wouldn't leave it at "falling": after having dealt with the Vengeance, they'd use whatever engines they had to make the ship move towards Earth. It's just that at some point, the engines would fail, and the sailing towards the intended destination would change into uncontrolled careening.
Sure, the first time we hear of the ship being in freefall towards Earth comes when Earth still appears rather small. But not small enough for this to happen beyond the Moon any longer! And if the ship had managed to fire engines to re-establish movement towards Earth, she could be freefalling at very high speed.
Timo Saloniemi
None of which was shown on screen though. You're just making assumptions/theories to explain it away.
After the original assault the Enterprise was more or less dead in the water, and was shown to have manoeuvring thrusters just before the space jump whilst still close to the moon. The vengeance then attacked the Enterprise again, rendering it dead so there was no way it should have fell to earth at this point.
Yet the fact remains that we first see her "falling" against a backdrop of an Earth that is already much closer. Perhaps Khan's mad firing just gave Kirk's ship the needed boost Earthways?
Nothing wrong with the fall itself, I guess, once sufficient initial speed is provided by something else besides mere Earth gravity. If the artificial gravity aboard were completely down, the heroes would be dead - the centrifugal forces evident from the spin would not just exceed their ability to hold onto handrails, but also exceed their ability to retain form when pressed against the outer walls. But it may have been down partially and/or sporadically. After all, we did have a ship full of competent heroes specifically and monomaniacally tasked with making said ship spaceworthy again; surely they could be making some progress while other heroes were seen hanging on to dear life.
Timo Saloniemi
Nothing wrong with the fall itself, I guess, once sufficient initial speed is provided by something else besides mere Earth gravity. If the artificial gravity aboard were completely down, the heroes would be dead - the centrifugal forces evident from the spin would not just exceed their ability to hold onto handrails, but also exceed their ability to retain form when pressed against the outer walls. But it may have been down partially and/or sporadically. After all, we did have a ship full of competent heroes specifically and monomaniacally tasked with making said ship spaceworthy again; surely they could be making some progress while other heroes were seen hanging on to dear life.
Timo Saloniemi
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