Keiko O'Brien and Married Life

[Citiprime]

I'm unmarried and I've always liked Keiko, even as a kid. Still love her wedding dress.

My father was in the Marine Corps. And for Deep Space Nine, she reminded me of the wives of military guys my parents knew who when their husband got orders for a duty station they may not want to move to, they do what they can to make the best of it. They're in loving relationships. They know this is an opportunity for their partner's career. And they sacrifice for their family.

I think part of what might color a lot of the perceptions of Keiko is how she was used. For the most part, she usually shows up when they want to have a "stress in the O'Briens' relationship" stories. So for the majority of her appearances, it's for strife and arguments with Miles.

 

[The Hanuk Kai]

I don't think Keiko registered to me as interesting before I was married. DS9 definitely affected how I think about family, but the O'Brien marriage and family didn't figure into that outlook as much as the Siskos. After my son was born, after eight years of marriage, I paid attention. When I rewatched in 2013, my son by my side, I took notice of Keiko and the interplay with Miles. It's a good character played by a good actress.

 

[DonIago]

So, after 22 votes, the two things that can perhaps be said are that by 2/3 people's views of Keiko tended to become more favorable after they were married (which isn't necessarily to say it was becoming married itself that led to that reevaluation), and in one case, time rather than marriage led to a similar reevaluation.

Based on some of the threads I've seen in the past where Keiko has become a discussion point, I'm still surprised there aren't more votes that start from a point of having unfavorable views of her.

 

[Tosk]

So, after 22 votes, the two things that can perhaps be said are that by 2/3 people's views of Keiko tended to become more favorable after they were married

I was really amped up to argue with you until I realised that you meant "Two or three of the voters" rather than "two thirds of the voters".

 

[DonIago]

I was really amped up to argue with you until I realised that you meant "Two or three of the voters" rather than "two thirds of the voters".

Por que no los dos?

 

[Tosk]

No hablo español.

 

[DonIago]

No hablo español.

Why not both?

 

[The Hanuk Kai]

Based on some of the threads I've seen in the past where Keiko has become a discussion point, I'm still surprised there aren't more votes that start from a point of having unfavorable views of her.

I suspect that people are not willing to admit to their presuppositions when confronted with the question as it is posed. I have seen some strong opinions expressed about her on this website.

 

[DonIago]

I suspect that people are not willing to admit to their presuppositions when confronted with the question as it is posed. I have seen some strong opinions expressed about her on this website.

I'm glad I wasn't misremembering.

 

[Richard S. Claus]

Didn’t have a problem with Keikobefore I was married and have no problem with her now.

Great character, well written and well acted.

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

"ACCESSION" - she sees Miles sad that he is spending less time with his best friend, Bashir. She has good enough instincts to also know Bashir misses hanging out with him, too. Which is precisely why she calls Bashir up and tells him exactly what she told Miles.

If any episode sold me on Keiko as a character, it was this one. It told me that she understood her husband, maybe better than he understood himself.

 

[May 20]

My father was in the Marine Corps. And for Deep Space Nine, she reminded me of the wives of military guys my parents knew who when their husband got orders for a duty station they may not want to move to, they do what they can to make the best of it. They're in loving relationships. They know this is an opportunity for their partner's career. And they sacrifice for their family.

I'm a Navy brat, and I remember some of the duty stations and housing situations we were in. Some were...less than ideal, especially in the 1970s. Moving like we did so frequently was challenging for my mom, so I completely felt for Keiko's reaction to DS9 and appreciated what she gave up to follow Miles for his career.

I really would have liked to see Miles build the arboretum for Keiko. Sisko (a widower) was completely supportive, but Miles let Julian (a *very* single man) talk him out of it. I still have strong feelings about that. Sure, it might have started as a hobby, but there, on the doorstep of the Gamma Quadrant, she could have crafted her career as the Alpha Quadrant expert on Gamma Quadrant botany. Miles fumbled hard here by listening to Julian, imo.

Fwiw, there's no option for those of us who were married at the beginning of DS9 and saw the relationship through married eyes the first time.

 

[Tosk]

Sure, it might have started as a hobby, but there, on the doorstep of the Gamma Quadrant, she could have crafted her career as the Alpha Quadrant expert on Gamma Quadrant botany. Miles fumbled hard here by listening to Julian, imo.

Might have. Could have.

I don't disagree that maybe Miles shouldn't have abandoned his plan so quickly, but I personally think it's pretty plain from Keiko's reaction that his new plan was exactly what she wanted/needed. I think Julian's advice in general wasn't bad.

 

[kkt]

I can't believe Miles listened to Julian about marital advice. Julian's idea of a long-term relationship was a two-night stand!

I was pro-Keiko from the timeI saw them on the show. Which is kind of complicated. I didn't start watching the show until '99 and I didn't watch TNG before that either, so seeing Miles and Keiko together was really in our newlywed stage. A realistic marriage in which they love each other but don't always love everything about each other, and accept that sacrifices will be necessary on both sides.

I loved Keiko rooting for Miles in the racketball battle with Julian. "Kick his butt!" A less understanding spouse might easily have pointed out that he was acting like a pouting teen, and that Miles has about 15 years on Julian plus Julian spent an awful lot of time playing tennis which uses a lot of the same moves.

I am surprised by the results! So many people have complained about Keiko on the board. At time I felt maybe thay had misunderstood The Assignment and thought that was all Keiko, not Keiko's stolen body.

 

[Frostscape One]

Might have. Could have.

I don't disagree that maybe Miles shouldn't have abandoned his plan so quickly, but I personally think it's pretty plain from Keiko's reaction that his new plan was exactly what she wanted/needed. I think Julian's advice in general wasn't bad.

I agree with this. The Bajor expedition was a certainty, while the Gamma Quadrant stuff was only a possibility, especially given the Dominion threat.

That scene served two purposes: it showed us Bashir has grown up since the pilot, and it helps cement their friendship further.

I must also point out that in Keiko's first appearance on DS9, "A MAN ALONE" (first episode produced after the pilot), while Miles and Keiko were talking and walking, he said there would be runabouts going to the Gamma Quadrant that would be doing surveys and he'd make sure she was on some of them, but she "didn't want him doing her those favors". He also pointed out how much prettier the station would be if she planted trees and such throughout the Promenade... you can see there she was already not liking the idea much. That conversation was earlier in the episode... later in "A MAN ALONE", she comes up with the school idea.

This tells us two things about her character. First, she would rather get something entirely based on her own merit than use any helpful leg up, like being married to a senior officer, to get it. Second, she likes a challenge. She said herself she has never been a teacher, but she set out to do it, and succeeded for 2 years. She closed it only because nobody was keeping their kids on the station due to the Dominion threat.

Given this knowledge beforehand, Bashir's advice was absolutely correct. Later in that episode ("THE HOUSE OF QUARK"), Miles points out to her that she would probably qualify for the Chief Botanist position for that expedition on Bajor, meaning she would have earned it and not just have had it handed to her. I think Miles kept what she said to him in "A MAN ALONE" in mind after his talk with Bashir, and then he found out about that expedition.

 

[Adventerprise]

I can't believe Miles listened to Julian about marital advice. Julian's idea of a long-term relationship was a two-night stand!

Do as I say, not as I do?

Julian's parents are still married, so it's not like he has no insights on marital relationships.

 

[USS Firefly]

How long was Bashir with Leeta?

 

[Turtletrekker]

How long was Bashir with Leeta?

Exactly what I was going to bring up. In fact, before Leeta we never even saw Bashir in a one-night stand let alone a two night stand. All we ever really saw of him was him striking out. And I don't believe for a moment that all he saw in Jadzia was a potential conquest.

 

[Frostscape One]

Bashir and Leeta started dating right after they met in "EXPLORERS", which was the tail quarter end of season 3. They were together throughout season 4, and broke up early season 5 in "LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN...", so they were together roughly 1.25 to 1.5 years.

Bashir also almost got married before he went to DS9, as he told O'Brien in "ARMAGEDDON GAME".

 

[Tosk]

Yeah, Julian was 27 when we first met him. Plenty of time for a few relationships before Emissary.

His advice wasn't some grand "when you're married..." theory, it was simply that a serious disagreement in a relationship needs to be addressed directly instead of papered over.

Exactly what I was going to bring up. In fact, before Leeta we never even saw Bashir in a one-night stand let alone a two night stand. All we ever really saw of him was him striking out.

I assume they were maybe thinking of Melora. Though I wouldn't count that as a "stand" at all, just a fledgling relationship that did not work out.