A bogot? Like that monster from Harry Potter?
Kahless
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A bogot? Like that monster from Harry Potter?
Could you provide the passage from the TOS bible that says this? I'd never heard that before, I'd be interesting in seeing it.
I don't think anyone is saying that. Someone can be a former enemy and still be a friend. Just because Germany was the aggressor in World War II doesn't make the German people inherently Nazis, and forever enemies to everyone else. Same goes for the Klingons. They were a state hostile to the Federation in TOS. They have since made peace, and in doing so, the Federation has learned more about the Klingons rather than just classifying them as "enemies."
Do you really think that during Picard's time there are no more races that still hate the Klingons for what they did to them? Mmn. Maybe, but I don't think so. There would still be some stigma. am I wrong, because it would be great dramtically for Worf to play the underdog that some can't fully want to trust but have to. I thought that was the whole best part about him being a Klingon.
I thought Kahless is the legendary Klingon monarch. KIndda like Thailand's Queen Suriyothai and Prachao Syua (The Lord of Tiger), or Pichai of the Broken Swords (who fought on even when two of his sword broke until his last breath), or England's Richard the Lion Heart.
I didn't. I said that the idea that they're automatic bad guys is what's stupid, not the idea of them sometimes being used as villains.
That seems improbable, since the Klingons weren't even created until "Errand of Mercy," near the end of the first season.
He probably just figured that Kirk would have a certain point of view about the founder of the Klingon Empire because of the Empire's status as the Federation's enemy.
ETA:
Well, he's the founder both of the Klingon Empire and of the Klingon's modern philosophical/religious system. So he's probably more analogous, in some ways, to Buddha or the Prophet Mohammed, or to King Arthur crossed with Jesus, or to Romulus and Remus.
Portraying Kirk as a bigot is smart?
Imagine the dramatic potential of Worf having to overcome the bias and prejudice other races who still harbor some risidual hatred toward the Klingons, might have had. It's not like the Germans. They were brought to justice. Styles had resentment towards the Romulans. It would be the same thing or should have been.
Imagine the dramatic potential of Worf having to overcome the bias and prejudice other races who still harbor some risidual hatred toward the Klingons, might have had. It's not like the Germans. They were brought to justice. Styles had resentment towards the Romulans. It would be the same thing or should have been.
I imagine Kahless was a murderer by Kirk's standards; Kahless was a warrior, after all. Kahless probably killed a bunch of people during his time on Q'onos but he did it in an honorable way which was acceptable and praise-worthy in Klingon culture.
Depends. in TOS, Klingons had dark skin, no battle armour, no batleth's and mek'leths, spoke no Klingon, nor had cranial ridges (or had worms as their most favoured culinary delight). Continuity errors are part and parcel of Trek. 
Maybe as the warrior culture had been established in TNG, the writers needed somebody who epitomised this lifestyle. They also used Rightful Heir as a means of exploring religion and faith so this is another reason.
Maybe as the warrior culture had been established in TNG, the writers needed somebody who epitomised this lifestyle. They also used Rightful Heir as a means of exploring religion and faith so this is another reason.
I imagine that all portrayals of Kahless are "true." He was one-dimensional in TOS -- pure evil -- but in TNG he became more rounded; we learned about his other motivations. Everyone has at least a few good points.
I'm reminded of a documentary on Hitler I saw just the other night, during which a contemporary said that, if the dictator had died in 1939, before the invasion of Poland, he'd be remembered as a great statesman who saved Germany from war, restored unity, and delivered the country from a horrid recession during which you literally needed wheelbarrows of money to buy a loaf of bread.
Which is not to say he wasn't the closest thing we've ever seen to Satan incarnate. I hope there is a hell, only so that he can burn there forever.
I generally dislike the ST novels by Diane Duane, but she did have a good take on all this in "Ship of the Line." She points out that, even in the TNG era, Klingon officers advance via assassination. She has one of her characters say, "And we made peace with THAT?"
I agree.
Worf was lucky to be an orphan -- and so were we in the audience, to be able to avoid too much of the mirror-universe-style immorality that is the Klingon empire. If we had learned much more, there's no way they would have been in any way sympathetic.
I'm reminded of a documentary on Hitler I saw just the other night, during which a contemporary said that, if the dictator had died in 1939, before the invasion of Poland, he'd be remembered as a great statesman who saved Germany from war, restored unity, and delivered the country from a horrid recession during which you literally needed wheelbarrows of money to buy a loaf of bread.
Which is not to say he wasn't the closest thing we've ever seen to Satan incarnate. I hope there is a hell, only so that he can burn there forever.
I generally dislike the ST novels by Diane Duane, but she did have a good take on all this in "Ship of the Line." She points out that, even in the TNG era, Klingon officers advance via assassination. She has one of her characters say, "And we made peace with THAT?"
I agree.
Worf was lucky to be an orphan -- and so were we in the audience, to be able to avoid too much of the mirror-universe-style immorality that is the Klingon empire. If we had learned much more, there's no way they would have been in any way sympathetic.
Not to be an asshole, but that was Diane Carey, not Diane Duane.
I've noticed that's basically the only thing he actually does. I'm not sure he actually ever has a legitimate point to make.
Well, I remember, back in around 1983, or so, Saddam was given the key to Detroit, and I lived there at the time as a kid.
As for Kahless, I think in TOS, he was shown as how Kirk envisioned him. He had a prejudice for Klingons that would span another 20 years, hence Kahless being 'evil', and I am sure Kirk ran into the ridged head Klingons in the TOS years, just that we never got to see those times, he probably related to guys like Kang, and Kor when "Kahless" was formed. Kirk probably might have gotten along well with the real Kahless, I bet. I found him quite likable, wish we could have seen more of him.
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