Why did Picard make first contact with the Edo?
"Justice" for all?
- Thread starter c0rnedfr0g
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Good Will Riker
Admiral
It was for rest and relaxation.
The Federation rules of first contact with a warp-capable planet (society) was set in stone in the 4th season episode "First Contact," but that was not the case for the 1st season episode "Justice."
The Federation rules of first contact with a warp-capable planet (society) was set in stone in the 4th season episode "First Contact," but that was not the case for the 1st season episode "Justice."
However, the "First Contact" rules were for a civilization that was not yet aware of the existence of space aliens. Nowhere in "Justice" do we learn that the Edo would not have known of space aliens in advance - so for consistency's sake, we could deduce that when Picard arrived in the system, an attractive voice from the Edo Space Traffic Control purred a warm welcome into his comm systems.
That would still count as a "discovery" of the Edo for Picard, as is suggested in the dialogue. But it would not fall under the first contact rules applied in that other TNG episode.
Basically, then, the Edo would be no different from the Argelians of TOS "Wolf in the Fold": peaceful folks who aren't interested in space travel but know of it and welcome all visitors. For all we know, their civilization used to be super-advanced, and built that God in orbit so that they could relax a bit and let go of that super-advancement...
Timo Saloniemi
That would still count as a "discovery" of the Edo for Picard, as is suggested in the dialogue. But it would not fall under the first contact rules applied in that other TNG episode.
Basically, then, the Edo would be no different from the Argelians of TOS "Wolf in the Fold": peaceful folks who aren't interested in space travel but know of it and welcome all visitors. For all we know, their civilization used to be super-advanced, and built that God in orbit so that they could relax a bit and let go of that super-advancement...
Timo Saloniemi
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
To have sex with a dead ringer for Brenda Bakke while her alien machine deity watches?
TGT
That's a good question. I think they described it once as being in multiple places simultaneously, so it could be right there when the Edo are making love and they wouldn't even know!
He was ordered to by Starfleet most likely.
I'd just like to know what Starfleet allowed a crew of theirs to beam down a planet with lethal laws on the books without fully informing them.
And why don't Starfleet personnel have some kind of diplomatic immunity when visiting planets?
I'd just like to know what Starfleet allowed a crew of theirs to beam down a planet with lethal laws on the books without fully informing them.
And why don't Starfleet personnel have some kind of diplomatic immunity when visiting planets?
I recall no indication in this episode that the Edo were not aware of off-world life forms. I believe it was stated they were pre-warp but it seemed they were aware of other life-froms off their own planet which seems like more of the "intent" of the PD anyway. They also enjoyed a global idyllic society which seems to be another pre-req. for contact with alien cultures.
They may not of had warp-drive but they were a peacful global society and aware of off-worlders. Seems to me the PD/First Contact rules do not apply.
They may not of had warp-drive but they were a peacful global society and aware of off-worlders. Seems to me the PD/First Contact rules do not apply.
The PD on TNG was often over-applied, IMO. I think that when basically everyone involved knows about life outside their worlds and the PD itself, then it simply becomes a matter of not interfering where you have no jursidiction in a non-UFP world. I mean, when the antagonist is taunting you about the PD (TOS's Bread and Circuses, TNG's Symbiosis), I think it frees you from strict adherence. You can't go in, guns blazing and replace the government and like that. But I think you can stop walking on eggshells.
To my mind, the PD is mainly for FC with societies wherein life on other worlds is only speculated upon and would throw off moves towards peace/unity, or worlds where the concept is still simply unthinkable. Plus its application never seems to be thought through, except as a big 'Can't'.
In B&C, Kirk might have reasoned out that if Claudius Marcus knew of the UFP, he might have told enough aides to make a plain escape doable for our landing party trio. Rome being a fascist state, the ordinary citizens would have believed what they were told. In Symbiosis, Picard was not so bound as he seemed to think. What if he had just told T'jon the truth w/o revealing that the dealer aliens knew it all along? He didn't land on their worlds, and they knew 90% of what it usually takes to say Hi, we're the UFP.
I don't think there is enough data in the episode for me to determine why he did it. Based on the comments I read in this thread though, it is yet one more charge, with numerous specifications, that should be levied against Picard at his richly deserved court martial.
Worst Federation Captain ever!
To have sex with a dead ringer for Brenda Bakke while her alien machine deity watches?
TGT
Yeah, that actress looked exactly like Brenda Bakke! Amazing!
To have sex with a dead ringer for Brenda Bakke while her alien machine deity watches?
TGT
Yeah, that actress looked exactly like Brenda Bakke! Amazing!
Who's she?
I know, look it up. But it would be convenient for others like me who are unaware of her existence.
Actually, that actress is Brenda Bakke! But, I guess that's the joke they're trying to play.To have sex with a dead ringer for Brenda Bakke while her alien machine deity watches?
TGT
Yeah, that actress looked exactly like Brenda Bakke! Amazing!
Who's she?
I know, look it up. But it would be convenient for others like me who are unaware of her existence.
...Paint me spoilsport and stupid at the same time, but I'd like to know who Brenda Bakke is, too. That is, what about her makes the joke? Is she famous or something? Her IMDB score looks rather average, not particularly high on either hardcore porn or C-rate scifi.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Good Will Riker
Admiral
^^^
She did Playboy, plus she was in her early-20's when she appeared in TNG's "Justice."
That's good enough for me.
Plus, I thought she was fine in her performance in Under Siege 2: Dark Territory.
She did Playboy, plus she was in her early-20's when she appeared in TNG's "Justice."
That's good enough for me.
Plus, I thought she was fine in her performance in Under Siege 2: Dark Territory.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
As KDoug noted, Brenda Bakke was the actress who portrayed "Rivan" in this episode. It just so happened that her roles in ST:TNG, GunHed and Solar Crisis made her an object of XXX-rated contemplative fascination for me during the late 1980s.
TGT
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