Just watched "The Omega Glory"

[ZapBrannigan]

Being a Canadian, this episode definitely came acoss ( especially later in life) as overtly rah rah American/patriotic. But Regardless of that, It hasn't aged well. Some parts of it I still like weirdly enough ( probably for campy nostalgia) but definitely not one of my favorites. Probably would rate it in my "bottom" 15.

Actors like good words to say. Shatner is Canadian too, but he gave the Preamble a power and authority that embraced the American audience and lifted us up. He was bold and masterful. It was theatrical television.

Come the 70s, I was shocked to read David Gerrold trashing the episode in one of his books. It turns out that, even among American citizens, a lot of people do not like the Constitution, and they hate the concept of American Exceptionalism. So, there went my innocence.

 

[FredH]

Come the 70s, I was shocked to read David Gerrold trashing the episode in one of his books. It turns out that, even among American citizens, a lot of people do not like the Constitution, and they hate the concept of American Exceptionalism. So, there went my innocence.

Don’t know the Gerrold position, but feel I should note those are two very different things. Disliking the whole American Exceptionalism thing I can see, even more so lately. Disliking the Constitution itself is a much bigger and more dangerous thing.

 

[johnnybear]

The only thing I really liked about it was Morgan Woodward, but he's always been terrific in everything he appeared in.

Irene Kelley was a pretty sexy lady too.
JB

 

[Maurice]

The only thing I really liked about it was Morgan Woodward, but he's always been terrific in everything he appeared in.

He was even compelling as a corpse on Hill Street Blues.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

He was even compelling as a corpse on Hill Street Blues.

I won't deny that show's final year had some plot redundancy and less compelling plots, but I hope you binge-enjoyed it to the very end. The final episode didn't get sentimental ot monumental, so in a sense it was easier to say farewell to it. ST. ELSEWHERE, however, was quite the opposite and gave me major withdrawal symptoms.

Woodward looked quite old on HSB, but he stuck around almost more decades.

 

[Maurice]

I won't deny that show's final year had some plot redundancy and less compelling plots, but I hope you binge-enjoyed it to the very end. The final episode didn't get sentimental ot monumental, so in a sense it was easier to say farewell to it. ST. ELSEWHERE, however, was quite the opposite and gave me major withdrawal symptoms.

Woodward looked quite old on HSB, but he stuck around almost more decades.

I watched all of it on its original run.

 

[Roundabout]

And, not for anything. Shatner's passionate reading of the US Constitution, along with his "they must apply to everyone! Or they mean nothing!" is a timeless message that should speak to every human on this planet, no matter where you hail from.

No question about it, Kirk gave a stirring recitation of the Preamble.

And Kirk's "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing!" are good words.

But if Chief Cloud knew any better, he could have replied, "That's rich, coming from you. You arrest Tracey for violating the Prime Directive, yet here you are, right now, violating the Prime Directive with impunity."



I enjoyed "The Omega Glory". But I am going to sound like a nitpicking party pooper on this point, that I'm going to make.



So, Kirk is a stickler for adhering to the Prime Directive when it comes to Tracey. But when it comes to his own PD violation, rules be damned.

At the end, even Spock knew there was something amiss with Kirk's actions. That's why Spock asked Kirk, "there's no question about his guilt, Captain, but does our involvement here also constitute a violation of the Prime Directive?"

Kirk didn't deny that he violated the PD. He justified it by unilaterally carving out an exception to the rule for himself (that's not new). Talk about double standard and hypocrisy.

What about those high minded words "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing"? The PD applies to Tracey, but not to Kirk? The PD means nothing then.

I get that the context of Tracey's PD violation and Kirk's violation are different. But a PD violation is a PD violation. I didn't make the rules. Those are their rules, Starfleet rules, as Kirk and Spock described them, "regulations are quite harsh."

As I wrote earlier, I enjoy watching "The Omega Glory". Shatner/Kirk gave an excellent memorable performance.

It is just in recent viewings, that Kirk's double standard had become glaringly clear. I wouldn't blame Chief Cloud if he was confused by all this double standard.

 

[Maurice]

Tracy had already upset the apple cart. There was no putting things back to the way they were before, as too much blood had been shed. Kirk's choices were to leave the situation as bloody as Tracy had made it, or try to calm it down.

 

[Ovation]

No question about it, Kirk gave a stirring recitation of the Preamble.

And Kirk's "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing!" are good words.

But if Chief Cloud knew any better, he could have replied, "That's rich, coming from you. You arrest Tracey for violating the Prime Directive, yet here you are, right now, violating the Prime Directive with impunity."



I enjoyed "The Omega Glory". But I am going to sound like a nitpicking party pooper on this point, that I'm going to make.



So, Kirk is a stickler for adhering to the Prime Directive when it comes to Tracey. But when it comes to his own PD violation, rules be damned.

At the end, even Spock knew there was something amiss with Kirk's actions. That's why Spock asked Kirk, "there's no question about his guilt, Captain, but does our involvement here also constitute a violation of the Prime Directive?"

Kirk didn't deny that he violated the PD. He justified it by unilaterally carving out an exception to the rule for himself (that's not new). Talk about double standard and hypocrisy.

What about those high minded words "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing"? The PD applies to Tracey, but not to Kirk? The PD means nothing then.

I get that the context of Tracey's PD violation and Kirk's violation are different. But a PD violation is a PD violation. I didn't make the rules. Those are their rules, Starfleet rules, as Kirk and Spock described them, "regulations are quite harsh."

As I wrote earlier, I enjoy watching "The Omega Glory". Shatner/Kirk gave an excellent memorable performance.

It is just in recent viewings, that Kirk's double standard had become glaringly clear. I wouldn't blame Chief Cloud if he was confused by all this double standard.

Your reasoning, if applied to all rules and laws, would, among other things, result in all homicides being judged equally—no difference between involuntary manslaughter and first degree murder. No one should want that kind of rigidity in the application of rules and laws.

 

[Roundabout]

As I wrote in my previous post, I didn't make the rules. And I do understand that the context of Tracey's PD violation and Kirk's PD violation are different.

Spock was the one who brought up the issue, in the form of a question, that Kirk violated the PD.

I do think that the circumstances and context of how Kirk's and Tracey's PD violations happened should be taken into account to determine how each one should be held to account, or not, for their respective violation. But I'm not the rule maker.



But that really wasn't my point anyway.

When asked, Kirk didn't deny, to Spock, that he violated the PD. Instead, Kirk actually justified his violation, by giving the excuse that he did.

Which brings me back to Kirk's high minded words, "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing".

If the PD applies to Tracey, the PD must also apply to Kirk.

Both Tracey and Kirk interfered with the planet's internal affairs.

McCoy even acknowledged that Tracey was stuck on the planet and was basically defending himself against the Yangs. No matter, because Kirk took a hard line that Tracey had to be arrested for his PD violation, regardless of the circumstances that Tracey found himself in.

Then Kirk ought to have applied the same standard to himself that he applied to Tracey.

When Kirk got back to the ship, he should have officially fessed up to Starfleet about his PD violation. In the process, he can defend his actions, and then let the chips fall where they may.

But that did not happen because Kirk unilaterally let himself off the hook.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm pretty sure that Kirk reported every Prime Directive violation he made and his justifications for it. We know for certain that other captains like Picard did this as their number of Prime Directive violations gets brought up sometimes.

 

[johnnybear]

Once the references to outer space and other worlds had been released to the people of Omega IV what other actions and options did Kirk have?
He gave the people a charter to believe in and to understand rather than just reciting a mass of scribble. Plus earlier on I get the feeling that Kirk just didn't want to believe that Ron Tracey had violated the prime directive considering his years and reputation in Starfleet.
JB

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As I wrote in my previous post, I didn't make the rules. And I do understand that the context of Tracey's PD violation and Kirk's PD violation are different.

Spock was the one who brought up the issue, in the form of a question, that Kirk violated the PD.

Spock's question was whether the Enterprise personnel violated the Prime Directive.

Kirk said they did not, Spock did not debate Kirk's judgment. End of.

 

[Ssosmcin]

No question about it, Kirk gave a stirring recitation of the Preamble.

And Kirk's "they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing!" are good words.

But if Chief Cloud knew any better, he could have replied, "That's rich, coming from you. You arrest Tracey for violating the Prime Directive, yet here you are, right now, violating the Prime Directive with impunity."

Knew better as in actually was aware of a Prime Directive, or knew how to form coherent sentences? Because Cloud William wouldn't ever give that argument.

Besides:

SPOCK: There's no question about his guilt, Captain, but does our involvement here also constitute a violation of the Prime Directive?
KIRK: We merely showed them the meaning of what they were fighting for. Liberty and freedom have to be more than just words.

Explained and justified. He didn't give them the documents, he just explained them. There's no "violation with impunity."

(actual PD violations in TOS are as exaggerated as Kirk's love life - he skirted the letter of the rule but the justification was normally there)

The Prime Directive is explained by Kirk in Bread and Circuses:

KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilizations.

Tracey did the damage, he gave them advanced weapons. Kirk just told them what the documents meant. It's open for debate, but the episode explained it so it's fine. And what are the chances one guy giving a statement and leaving will change a society? That's akin to a Facebook post spouting off about a new government bill and expecting a major change to policy.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yep, and another part of the weirdness was that when Roddenberry wrote Omega, very little had been established about the show's time period. He felt at liberty to assume that the show would be set in the distant future, allowing time for the Yangs and Combs to be living remnants of an ancient Earth colony.

It definitely fits with a Twilight Zone mindset, whose anthology format allowed pretty much any set of one-time assumptions.

I guess you could say Preservers, and for some reason they were set down in the past? With the chances of nuclear war looming, they may have been ripe for saving. The disease and long/life stuff was odd and didn't completely fit, just a degraded society works just as well.

 

[BillJ]

If the PD applies to Tracey, the PD must also apply to Kirk.

Both Tracey and Kirk interfered with the planet's internal affairs.

Tracey interfered, Kirk tried to put things right.