Just Saw "The End of Time"

[Bones2]

It's mentioned in Journey's End that Davros' command ship flew into the jaws of the Nightmare Child during the first year of the Last Great Time War, and that's where the Doctor presumed he was killed. It's up to the audience to make up what it actually is. Personally, I've got something more sinister in mind than some space monster.

 

[Sci]

I feel like I've just walked into another conversation half-way through or something.. What am I missing here?

He's describing what he imagines the Nightmare Child -- into whose jaws Davros's ship flew during the first year of the Time War -- to have looked like.

Is that mentioned onscreen or is it from somewhere else?

It's mentioned in "Journey's End," during the scene where Davros intercepts the Doctor's transmissions from the TARDIS and reveals that he's survived.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I felt much the same way about "End of Time" as Mr. Light did but I think it was really due to my own personal hyping of it. I've seen both parts a couple of times since then and have come around to enjoying it a lot more. I am pretty sure that Jack's eye catches a glimpse of the Adipose as it is about to fall off the bar's edge before he drinks another sip of whatever alcoholic he was drinking.I disagree with Mr. Light that Jack didn't seem remorseful at all. As others have pointed out Jack was alone, keeping to himself, drowning his problems in drink. I like the poster who commented that the Doctor's appearance and his hooking him up with Alonso was like the Doctor was forgiving him and helping him move along with his life. This is one of the reasons why I'm really hoping for an Eleventh Doctor adventure with Captain Jack so we can deal with "Children of Earth".

With regards to the Time Lords returning...I was excited because I had hoped that they would return but sort of be in secondary role. Maybe make a single appearance or two here or there. I don't believe that the Time Lord's or totally dead like Sci does in his first post. The Doctor clearly states "back into the Time War with you Rassilon" which I took to meant that the Doctor was sending them back to the time lock but not particularly a moment or time during the war. I suppose that they could have been returned to the last day where they came from and then yes the Eighth or Ninth doctor using the Moment weapon against them and the Dalak's happened. Also I take it that the other two Time Lord's who attended the President of which one is speculated to be Susan (the Woman in White) did not engage in what was happening because they were shamed (the reason why they're heads were down and their covering their eyes). I suspect the Master will be back as well...

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah they're not dead. This is comic book philosophy man They were sent back to the final day of the war, which means they have another 23 hours to get back out again before they "die".

 

[QCzar]

On that note, while I personally wouldn't like to see that, I think it can work if they bring them back in a lasting way (like with UNIT), but not the whole civilization and not as a baddie of the week.

I can imagine a few scenarios that get around the whole Moment and Time War thing:

••• Only a small faction of Time Lords make it out, setting up shop somewhere presumably hidden from the Doctor, but leaving little clues behind (ala Bad Wolf) which he eventually uses to track them down. He'll then find that they're planning to restore themselves to their previous power and grandiosity in a way that somehow (necessarily) threatens Earth.

••• The Rani escapes/had escaped the TW and, rather than bring others with her, uses genetic material to create Time Lord clones or some other freakish/unnatural manifestation. They'd obviously have to have some kind of psychological and/or physiological deformity that makes them "not true Time Lords", but something along the lines of the Asurans from Stargate Atlantis. She then tries to "perfect" them by experimenting on humans (or Jenny or some other similar aliens), her raison'detre. This then is what brings her into conflict with the Doctor.

••• The Doctor chances upon a group of humans going through some kind of struggle or crisis. After he and his companion spend the whole adventure trying to find a way to help them/stop them/whatever, the Doctor stumbles into a secret these humans have forgotten. They're all Time Lords in disguise, having escaped the TW (somehow) and used chameleon arches to appear human. The Doctor then has to struggle with whether to leave them as they are (and destroy the arches) or reveal the truth to them so that he is no longer alone. This story could be scattered over multiple episodes.
​

Any of the above (or similar derivations) could result in a kind of recurring faction that isn't representative of the wholesale return of the Time Lord civilization and of Gallifrey. We'll note that (outside of "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End") Davies never brought back the Daleks full-stop, but rather only factions of them. Usually small factions that were expanded into larger ones.

Since this method has a proven track record, so to speak, it can easily be adapted to allow the Time Lords a presence in the Moffat era without undermining the Doctor's essential loneliness or even dampening the mystery behind the Time War itself.

 

[Starkers]

I think its viable to bring them back (and someday whilst we won't see it, I'd like it explained just how the Doctor survived the timelock? I'm presuming he was the one turning the key but it is mysterious)

I really wouldn't want the chameleon arc used again though.

 

[Mr Light]

All three of those sound good. I just want more Time Lords! And they *have* to bring back Dalton as Rassilon to be the final ever Big Bad.

 

[Bones2]

The End of Time was the one chance for the Time Lords to make a permanent comeback. Any further try now would be silly (yes, I know, this is new Who we're talking about...). Maybe I'm wrong and it can be done well, but I can't see it having the impact that bringing them back in TEOT would have had.

Aside from a 12th Doctor story I have in mind to create the Valeyard. The hope is I'll be on the production team by then.

 

[Mr Light]

It's pretty funny how the Daleks "died" in the Time War yet returned on five separate occaisions If they can do it why not the almighty brilliant Time Lords, I say! :d

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Time War seems to be a major paradox in it's self as Mr. Light pointed out with the Daleks popping out. I thought that the woman in white was maybe Romana who had managed to escape the Time War and was somehow leading a rebel group of Time Lord's against a resurrected Rassilon who the Time Lord Council had brought back and whom expelled Romana from her Presidency. I just think that there wasn't any overall goal to bring them back on a permanent basis so they're still stuck in the War but there's a chance we could see them again.

 

[Starkers]

Aside from a 12th Doctor story I have in mind to create the Valeyard. The hope is I'll be on the production team by then.

That has made my morning!

 

[Bones2]

Aside from a 12th Doctor story I have in mind to create the Valeyard. The hope is I'll be on the production team by then.

That has made my morning!

Let me have my childish dreams

 

[Starkers]

Ok, I mean I'd love to think I could write for Who too someday, but given the show is succesful in its current format its unlikly the format is going to change that radically...and you don't like the format!

 

[Bones2]

Depends what you mean by "format". I mean, it hasn't really changed much since the 60s. The Doctor and one or more companions show up on a planet, there's something going, they solve it. That's roughly what happens. And fairly often, that planet's Earth. And just because you keep saying it, doesn't mean I hate everything from the new show. Unquiet Dead, Dalek, Empty Child/Doctor Dances, and Blink are all great (probably a lot more, but I can't remember much post-Fireplace). And Blink aside, the basic idea of the Doctor showing up and something going on is much the same as in the old show.

However, if by "format" you mean the standard flashy nonsense with lots of CGI but a nonsense plot and a convoluted Doctor/Rose semi-romance (Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways, New Earth, Aliens of London/World War Three), then that's not the kind of thing I'd try and write.

 

[Sci]

Depends what you mean by "format". I mean, it hasn't really changed much since the 60s. The Doctor and one or more companions show up on a planet, there's something going, they solve it. That's roughly what happens. And fairly often, that planet's Earth. And just because you keep saying it, doesn't mean I hate everything from the new show. Unquiet Dead, Dalek, Empty Child/Doctor Dances, and Blink are all great (probably a lot more, but I can't remember much post-Fireplace). And Blink aside, the basic idea of the Doctor showing up and something going on is much the same as in the old show.

However, if by "format" you mean the standard flashy nonsense with lots of CGI but a nonsense plot and a convoluted Doctor/Rose semi-romance (Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways, New Earth, Aliens of London/World War Three), then that's not the kind of thing I'd try and write.

When I hear someone say "format," my first thought is that it's referring to the structure of the story: Teaser, opening credits, 42-minute-long story consisting of four or five acts, next-episode preview, credits.

And from what I understand, fitting your story into that format, that kind of time constraint, can itself be a huge challenge.

 

[Phily B]

It is viable to bring the Time Lords back because its possible that the Master changed events in the time lock/bubble thingy that allows the Timelords to survive.

 

[DalekJim]

Just watched this again, well deserving of an Excellent rating and certainly a classic. Stellar performances from Tennant, Cribbins and Simm that should be up for every award going but alas this is sci-fi.

From when Rose Tyler appears untill the credits is arguably the best Who has ever been for me. I would've liked a few bars from Song for Ten during the regen mind.

 

[Sci]

Just watched this again, well deserving of an Excellent rating and certainly a classic. Stellar performances from Tennant, Cribbins and Simm that should be up for every award going but alas this is sci-fi.

From when Rose Tyler appears untill the credits is arguably the best Who has ever been for me. I would've liked a few bars from Song for Ten during the regen mind.

I don't think that would work. "Song for Ten" is about happiness and contentedness and being in love. The Tenth Doctor's regeneration, on the other hand, is supposed to be about sorrow, about saying goodbye and letting go, and about the mystery of the Doctor himself. They're incompatible moods.

 

[Bones2]

Whack it into the minor key. Personally, I think Murray Gold's a capable composer, but needs a lot of reining in. Though considering the stupid bloody tour of his time that the Tenth Doctor was taking in the first place, it's not as if the music was ruining anything.

 

[Jax]

However, if by "format" you mean the standard flashy nonsense with lots of CGI but a nonsense plot and a convoluted Doctor/Rose semi-romance (Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways, New Earth, Aliens of London/World War Three), then that's not the kind of thing I'd try and write.

I do wonder how many different ways you plan on telling us you hate the show? The basic format makes the show buts I believe its changed and for the better.