Just Saw "The End of Time"

[Mr Light]

I did a search and I couldn't find the review page for this.

Finally got to see the final Tennant episode on DVD!

Unfortunately I found it to be utterly disappointed on nearly every level.

Maybe I was just hyping it up too much in my mind, but I found the finales of the previous seasons to be considerably more epic and well written. "Journey's End" was an epic and fitting conclusion to the series that reunited every single companion in a meaningful way. "Last of the Time Lords" was an incredible story with big movements (even with Dr. Gollum Jesus). "Doomsday"... "Parting of the Ways"... the endings have always been excellent.

But this was just anti-climactic all over. The Master comes back as a manic cackling fool with lighting powers and a light up Skeletor head? The Time Lords come back from the grave... for five whole minutes? Wilfred has a mysterious cosmic connection... no wait he doesn't? The other companions only get to make 30 second cameos. The Doctor dies... no wait he doesn't... no wait he does... no wait the radiation didn't count... no wait he is dying?

And I can swallow a lot in this show, but the idea of every human on the planet transforming into the Master was just utterly silly and over the top. I just found it ridiculous.

Hell, it even shat on "Children of the Earth" by showing Jack back to his normal dapper self on an alien planet without a single sign of remorse for what he did.

Also, WTF is up with the Doctor calling the President "Rassilon"? That was an extremely confusing throwaway line! Is this supposed to be the historical Rassilon who founded Time Lord society?! Or just some bloke who took his name? That really needed an explanation.

I also didn't like the way the Doctor is apparently dying of radiation poisoning (after a scene that seemed to indicate that this didn't happen and he was fine) yet has the time to travel around and visit all his friends and family one last time without any apparent side effects right up until the end. And why the hell did his regeneration destroy/disable the Tardis like that? That's never happened before.

Was anyone else expecting the finale to be about The Beast? When they talked about him/it coming back from the darkness that's immediately what I thought of. When the Master said the drumbeat was coming from somewhere I immediately thought of the Beast. Oh well.

I'm still dearly looking forward to the new season with Moffat in charge, even if my very brief exposure to the Twelve Doctor was an extremely negative one.

I've been intentionally avoiding all news about this to avoid being spoiled, but was the finale received well? I can never tell because there was a lot of negativity surrounding "Last of the Time Lords" and "Journey's End" and I thought they were great.

 

[Sci]

Hell, it even shat on "Children of the Earth" by showing Jack back to his normal dapper self on an alien planet without a single sign of remorse for what he did.

Um, perhaps you didn't notice, but Jack was sitting at the bar being all emo before the Doctor introduced him to Alonso.

Also, WTF is up with the Doctor calling the President "Rassilon"? That was an extremely confusing throwaway line! Is this supposed to be the historical Rassilon who founded Time Lord society?!

Presumably. And why not? The Time Lords can resurrect people (as established in "The Sound of Drums"). And if the Daleks can bring back their founder (Davros) to lead them through the Time War, why can't the Time Lords?

I also didn't like the way the Doctor is apparently dying of radiation poisoning (after a scene that seemed to indicate that this didn't happen and he was fine)

There was no such scene. The Doctor's being able to heal himself has consistently been established as accompanying regeneration, and a Time Lord's ability to suppress regeneration was established in "The Sound of Drums."

And why the hell did his regeneration destroy/disable the Tardis like that?

Presumably because he was releasing more energy than normal, due to his having absorbed so much radiation.

Was anyone else expecting the finale to be about The Beast?

No, I was not expecting "The End of Time" to be about a lame CGI monster.

I'm still dearly looking forward to the new season with Moffat in charge, even if my very brief exposure to the Twelve Doctor was an extremely negative one.

Matt Smith is playing the Eleventh Doctor, not the Twelfth.

 

[Psion]

Hell, it even shat on "Children of the Earth" by showing Jack back to his normal dapper self on an alien planet without a single sign of remorse for what he did.

It's hard to gauge Jack's condition in that brief appearance, but it looked to me like the Doctor was fixing him up with a lover to take his mind off his trouble. Both Jack and Alonso (former midshipman of the Titanic) had things to get over.

Also, WTF is up with the Doctor calling the President "Rassilon"? That was an extremely confusing throwaway line! Is this supposed to be the historical Rassilon who founded Time Lord society?! Or just some bloke who took his name? That really needed an explanation.

That was weird. I'm not sure if Dalton was Rassilon resurrected, or if the Doctor was mocking him for his ambition. Still, I like a little uncertainty in my entertainment. It gives me something to think about, us something to argue about, and them a little wiggle-room in case they decide it was a bad idea.

I also didn't like the way the Doctor is apparently dying of radiation poisoning (after a scene that seemed to indicate that this didn't happen and he was fine) yet has the time to travel around and visit all his friends and family one last time without any apparent side effects right up until the end.

I liked this. When a person is exposed to a lethal dosage of radiation that doesn't kill them immediately, they very often experience a brief recovery known as the "walking ghost" phase. Even though they've suffered massive damage from ionizing radiation, they appear to recover for up to a few days. It's one of the cruelest aspects of radiation sickness. You feel fine, but it's time to get your affairs in order and say good-bye to friends, because you'll be in your grave within a week.

And why the hell did his regeneration destroy/disable the Tardis like that? That's never happened before.

So? There's a first time for everything. Maybe the Doctor's been lucky on previous regenerations, or maybe that radiation he absorbed ramped up the regeneration energy.

 

[Psion]

[Psion high-fives Sci]

Looks like we're on the same wavelength. I would have beaten you if I hadn't paused to confirm Alonso's name.

 

[David cgc]

Hell, it even shat on "Children of the Earth" by showing Jack back to his normal dapper self on an alien planet without a single sign of remorse for what he did.

Dapper? He was sitting in a sleezy space-bar getting drunk and not talking to anyone. He didn't even blink when that little Adipose (who was way, way too young to be in there) fell off the counter. It took the Doctor slipping him the tip about Alonso for Jack to realize a) the Doctor forgave him (having, in my opinion, just made the same sacrifice Jack did for the second time), and b) life goes on.

Also, WTF is up with the Doctor calling the President "Rassilon"? That was an extremely confusing throwaway line! Is this supposed to be the historical Rassilon who founded Time Lord society?! Or just some bloke who took his name? That really needed an explanation.

The implication is that Rassilon was resurrected much as the Master was, to lead Gallifrey in it's darkest hour.

Unfortunately, Rassilon is kind of a dick.

I also didn't like the way the Doctor is apparently dying of radiation poisoning (after a scene that seemed to indicate that this didn't happen and he was fine) yet has the time to travel around and visit all his friends and family one last time without any apparent side effects right up until the end. And why the hell did his regeneration destroy/disable the Tardis like that? That's never happened before.

The Doctor absorbed all the radiation into his body so it wouldn't leak out of the compartment and create a huge contamination of the area (the Doctor previously absorbed radiation in this way with the X-Ray machine in "Smith and Jones). Once that happened, it took time for the radiation poisoning to run its course. The initial damage, though, was enough to kick off the regeneration process*, which is how he healed all his wound so quickly. It probably also helped to slow up the radiation and give the Doctor some hours before he had to let the process complete itself. And regeneration doesn't have to happen immediately after the trauma. The seventh Doctor was clinically dead for hours before he regenerated, and we have no way of knowing how much time passed between the ninth Doctor taking the energy of the time vortex out of Rose and when she finally woke up. That could've been hours, too, and the timing of it suggests he was suppressing the process until she was awake to minimize the shock of his new face.

As for why it damaged the TARDIS, I'm sure that was the umpity-million rads the Doctor absorbed. Way too much to expel out of his left shoe and throw away. When he regenerated, all that radiation went out. He'll probably have a line to this effect in the next episode.

*Okay, so my take on regeneration is the the face-changing isn't a goal, it's a side-effect. Ideally, regeneration would be a simple renewal, sweeping over a Time-Lords body and repairing all the cells. Unfortunately, the process can't be controlled that finely, and once it starts, it builds to a chain-reaction where the body isn't just repaired, it's remade entirely. Ironically, it's the stress of the transformation that leaves behind some subtle damage. After twelve goes, enough damage has built up that the Time-Lord won't survive his next regeneration.

 

[Mr. Sin]

It was established in the classic series that Rassilon was sort of still alive, just sleeping or at least part of the matrix (The comics go a step further with this, I believe). Although the Rassilon Dalton plays doesn't resemble the one in "The Five Doctors", it's possible he just regenerated or was given a new body by the time lords, like what happened (presumabely) with the Master.


The "Skeletor" Master I saw as a nod to the Tom Baker-era Master, who was more or less a rotting skeleton with eyeballs, and who was also a 'dying' master. As for the energy bolts and why he was translucent as times, I think that was him mainly burning out his life-force. Also why he was so hungry all the time. His ressurection went wrong, remember, due to Lucy's tampering. Presumabely had Lucy not intervened with her thing, the Master would've been more stable.

 

[Mr Light]

If they were going to bring back Rassilon as a heavy they really should have done a lot more with it. That's a shame. Well, they can always bring him back! He and the Master and the other Time Lords are just sitting around in the time bubble right?

 

[Sci]

If they were going to bring back Rassilon as a heavy they really should have done a lot more with it. That's a shame. Well, they can always bring him back! He and the Master and the other Time Lords are just sitting around in the time bubble right?

No, they're dead now -- they went back into the time bubble and then died when the Eighth or Ninth Doctor used the Moment against them and the Daleks. (Presumably they had always left the time bubble and appeared near Earth in 2010 without the Eighth/Ninth Doctor knowing about it.)

And good riddance. Bringing the Time Lords back was a bad idea in the first place.

 

[The Wormhole]

Also, WTF is up with the Doctor calling the President "Rassilon"? That was an extremely confusing throwaway line! Is this supposed to be the historical Rassilon who founded Time Lord society?! Or just some bloke who took his name? That really needed an explanation.

I suspect that RTD intentionally left it vague for the benefit of fans not familiar with the original. To them Rassilon is just the guy's name, and that's that. Meanwhile, those of us who know who Rassilon is can speculate as to whether or not he is that Rassilon.

I believe he is. After all, would the Time Lords really resurrect a criminal like the Master without giving their founding father a chance?

He didn't even blink when that little Adipose (who was way, way too young to be in there)

My personal opinion is that that particular Adipose was a newborn. Literally. Think about it, you know what I mean.

 

[Samurai8472]

I did a search and I couldn't find the review page for this.

Here we go
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=111016

is this what you were looking for?

If they were going to bring back Rassilon as a heavy they really should have done a lot more with it. That's a shame. Well, they can always bring him back! He and the Master and the other Time Lords are just sitting around in the time bubble right?

No, they're dead now -- they went back into the time bubble and then died when the Eighth or Ninth Doctor used the Moment against them and the Daleks. (Presumably they had always left the time bubble and appeared near Earth in 2010 without the Eighth/Ninth Doctor knowing about it.)

And good riddance. Bringing the Time Lords back was a bad idea in the first place.

and then they were ressurected inside the time bubble to find new ways to beat the time war. Like the lady that Rassilion bond killed

The Partisan: This is only the furthest edge of the Time War. But at its heart, millions die every second, lost in bloodlust and insanity, with time itself resurrecting them, to find new ways of dying over and over again. A travesty of life. Isn't it better to end it at last?

 

[Starkers]

My take on the TARDIS exploding was a combination of the radiation he'd absorbed, linked with the fact that he'd held regeneration off through a force of will, much like the Master did. Like a finger in a dyke eventually the pressure of water on the other side becomes too much to bear and it explodes out. (of course this raises the question of just how the Master was able to switch the regeneration off, although I'm guessing turning it off is easier than holding it back (if that makes sense)

Or maybe the Master just has a stronger will!

 

[Sci]

I did a search and I couldn't find the review page for this.

Here we go
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=111016

is this what you were looking for?

No, they're dead now -- they went back into the time bubble and then died when the Eighth or Ninth Doctor used the Moment against them and the Daleks. (Presumably they had always left the time bubble and appeared near Earth in 2010 without the Eighth/Ninth Doctor knowing about it.)

And good riddance. Bringing the Time Lords back was a bad idea in the first place.

and then they were ressurected inside the time bubble to find new ways to beat the time war. Like the lady that Rassilion bond killed

The Partisan: This is only the furthest edge of the Time War. But at its heart, millions die every second, lost in bloodlust and insanity, with time itself resurrecting them, to find new ways of dying over and over again. A travesty of life. Isn't it better to end it at last?

There is no evidence that the Time Lords were resurrected after the Moment was used to destroy them; those victims the Partisan was speaking of were being killed by other means. It'd be pretty useless of the Doctor to end the threat posed to the fabric of space-time by the Time Lords only to have that threat be resurrected again, now wouldn't it?

 

[Starkers]

Well my take would be that the Doctor has re-banished them within the timelock, but they aren't dead, yet...Relatiavistically speaking from the point the link is broken to the "end" of the time war might be a few seconds, a few hours, a few days even--plenty of time for them to escape again.

I doubt we've seen the last of the Timelords, nor the Master.

 

[Sci]

Well my take would be that the Doctor has re-banished them within the timelock, but they aren't dead, yet...Relatiavistically speaking from the point the link is broken to the "end" of the time war might be a few seconds, a few hours, a few days even--plenty of time for them to escape again.

I doubt we've seen the last of the Timelords, nor the Master.

I'm sure the Master will return at some point, but I just might give up on Doctor Who if the Time Lords return again. A one-off return is one thing, but if they're not dead and gone, they're useless.

The Time Lords are only interesting when they're not alive.

 

[Starkers]

Ok, be sure not to let the door hit you on your way out

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

The Time Lords are only interesting when they're not alive.

While I agree with you if you're specifically talking about the Time Lords as a powerful civilization living on Gallifrey, I think individual Time Lords (like the Monk or the Rani) still have quite a lot of untapped potential, and obviously, "The End of Time" left the door wide open for them to be brought back.

 

[Samurai8472]

There is no evidence that the Time Lords were resurrected after the Moment was used to destroy them; those victims the Partisan was speaking of were being killed by other means. It'd be pretty useless of the Doctor to end the threat posed to the fabric of space-time by the Time Lords only to have that threat be resurrected again, now wouldn't it?

I just came to realization that time wasn't resurrecting them at all.

A Dalek shoots a timelord soldier

* timelord regenerates and continues to fight*

Then a week later the soldier regenerates again in another battle

 

[The Wormhole]

Relatiavistically speaking from the point the link is broken to the "end" of the time war might be a few seconds, a few hours, a few days even--

Well, not days anyway. The Visionary's prophecy said they were on the final day of the Time War.

 

[Starkers]

^Good point

 

[Mr Light]

I wouldn't bringing back the Time Lords, since it would put the Doctor on the run and no longer the top dog on the block anymore. Hell they could become the main villains as he tries to stop their selfish schemes.