Just had my first real work out.

[KJbushway]

Out of 10 only 2 had something bad happen to them. So its not bad everywhere.

Yeah, you're gonna have casualties. The important thing is that we took the beach.

Wait, what?

You apparently didn't read the rest of my post or didn't qoute the rest, but to not make me look like an ass you want to do that.

 

[RAMA]

^Heh. I live in Brooklyn. It happens everywhere, though. Believe me, I've been around the world and back and been harassed in half a dozen languages!

I've visited most countries in Western and South Europe, been to the US once, to Asia once, lived in big cities and in small towns and I've never had any of those nasty things happen to me.

I'm either extremely lucky (which i find unlikely since none of my friends has made any bad experiences either) or Europe is a ridiculously safe place if you have some common sense.

Edit: And even every single one of the photographers I've worked with was well-behaved, professional and absolutely harmless.

It(London) happens(Manchester) in (Berlin) Europe (Dortmund) and (Czech Republic) all (Delhi) over (Buenos Aires) the (Alberta)
world.

This still amazes me about you..you must have a sign on you that inspires this from men. Ok, I'm only kidding but, wow, I've never heard a woman have that much constant dis-respect! Kudos to you for somehow managing to rise above it.

I do get women who look at me, even stare...but usually not leer, and I don't think I'd be threatened if they did. Occasionally I am embarrassed somewhat depending on who I'm with..which happened about a week and a half ago.

Just did my first real workout, well, ever. Well, really since high school gym. One hour full of machines, reps, and talking with a trainer. Good times, and my body is beginning to revolt against me.

It actually wasn't too bad all things considered the reps on the various machines, mostly working on my arms and knees, didn't being to feel things until the early teens of the 20-rep set, and about 30 minutes total on the elliptical machine. Dammit, I'm going to get myself into shape!

Trekker this is all well and good, but keep away from the Twinkies!!!!

RAMA

 

[thestrangequark]

^I know, right! I even tried scowling for a week; they just started saying, "Why so angry, sexy?"

 

[RAMA]

^I know, right! I even tried scowling for a week; they just started saying, "Why so angry, sexy?"

*sigh* I do know some women who relish this sort of attention..I wonder how they manage to channel it?

RAMA

 

[{ Emilia }]

This still amazes me about you..you must have a sign on you that inspires this from men. Ok, I'm only kidding but, wow, I've never heard a woman have that much constant dis-respect!

That's exactly what I was thinking. She must be extremely unlucky I guess... no point arguing personal experiences but mine are completely different.

So I'd even doubt that "it happens a lot".
Too often, yes. But a lot? Not in my world at least. Now I guess it's debatable if I live in my own little naive paradise or if it's her perception of the general situation is skewed due to her personal experiences.

Edit: Oh, Rama... I was actually kidding regarding who has to make the first step. I don't expect the guy to do all the work. But in theory you can just slack if you're the girl.

 

[KJbushway]

There is woman like this, I have met some. So she is either a red-head and or a strong girl who is tired of guys crap, either way she has valid points.

 

[RAMA]

This still amazes me about you..you must have a sign on you that inspires this from men. Ok, I'm only kidding but, wow, I've never heard a woman have that much constant dis-respect!

That's exactly what I was thinking. She must be extremely unlucky I guess... no point arguing personal experiences but mine are completely different.

So I'd even argue that "it happens a lot".
Too often, yes. But a lot? Not in my world at least. Now I guess it's debatable if I live in my own little naive paradise or if it's her perception of the general situation is skewed due to her personal experiences.

Edit: Oh, Rama... I was actually kidding. I don't expect the guy to do all the work. But in theory you can just slack if you're the girl.

I've been to Italy, where people congregate on the street much more than in the USA..I did see Italian men as much more open in their willingness to make their attraction known...they have no compunction about allowing their eyes to wander either. American men do this too but they try to hide it more...often failing miserably.

 

[RAMA]

This still amazes me about you..you must have a sign on you that inspires this from men. Ok, I'm only kidding but, wow, I've never heard a woman have that much constant dis-respect!

That's exactly what I was thinking. She must be extremely unlucky I guess... no point arguing personal experiences but mine are completely different.

So I'd even doubt that "it happens a lot".
Too often, yes. But a lot? Not in my world at least. Now I guess it's debatable if I live in my own little naive paradise or if it's her perception of the general situation is skewed due to her personal experiences.

Edit: Oh, Rama... I was actually kidding regarding who has to make the first step. I don't expect the guy to do all the work. But in theory you can just slack if you're the girl.

Ah yes, males are the hunter-gatherers right? Ok dammit, where's my spear?

RAMA

 

[KJbushway]

Yeah the old sun-glasses trick.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I've been to Italy, where people congregate on the street much more than in the USA..I did see Italian men as much more open in their willingness to make their attraction known...they have no compunction about allowing their eyes to wander either. American men do this too but they try to hide it more...often failing miserably.

What you say about Italy is certainly true but I totally do not see that as harassment. When I moved from Italy to Germany I actually found it amusing that German guys don't really dare show you if they find you attractive.
I just don't see the big deal as long as it's harmless.

 

[KJbushway]

I think she is saying the same thing.

 

[Myasishchev]

I like to think that someone's opening this thread right now thinking it's about working out, and then just going "What the fuck?"

Pretty much all my fault too. Sorry about that.

I take full responsibility for my rantings. Though I did warn you!

I understand where he's coming from, but the point I'm making is that bandying about the word harassment as has been done in this thread is, at the very least, feeding into an environment in which women should not only expect to be sexually degraded, but should appreciate it. Of course, and I never said otherwise. It's also irrelevant, as we're talking about adult sexuality, not pedophilia.

You said by the age of twelve. That's just definitional. That said, I have no idea what the ratios are; I thought they were about equal.

The sexual abuse of children, male and female, has been inarguably classified as wrong and immoral by our society, unfortunately, the sexual abuse of women has not.

I think I disagree, unless you mean something other than what I think you mean.

The thing that stands out to me the most is "perceived disadvantage in personal security." You think that, in regards to sex crimes, women are merely "perceiving" a disadvantage?

Oh, God no. I only meant that the perception of a physical disadvantage--which is, unfortunately, based in fact--in any sort of combative situation (like being raped) is bound to be unpleasant. To be clear, the idea of being uncomfortable with strangers who have sixty pounds and four inches on you is pretty reasonable.

Easier access to sex? Who do you think we're having sex with? For every woman who is getting laid in a hetero encounter a man is getting laid too.

A man, yes, but the question is how that sex is distributed. If a in a population of a thousand, five hundred women are having sex with four hundred men, you have a problem. Even a minimally attractive woman can, or could, command sex basically at will, whereas a minimally attractive man is at a much greater disadvantage. This isn't really controversial, is it?

I'm a little confused re: total dominion. Over what?

A fetus.

The gap is still very real overall, women are at a great disadvantage when it comes to income.

I'm not in total disagreement, but the issue has become a lot more nuanced over the years. E.g., female lawyers tend to make partner more rarely less out of some kind of anti-female hostility and more because they become mothers. This is still a structural issue, and honestly my opinion is that it's as much of a problem with male gender roles as female ones. There is no reason why a female law firm partner-candidate needs to be the primary caregiver in most cases, when she has greater earning potential than her spouse. But as long as "househusband" is considered an emasculating position, including by women, you won't have that many men signing up for the position.

And in some demographics, structural issues have devastated male earning capacity. People with extensive criminal records are a tremendously male-skewed class, for example.

 

[RAMA]

I've been to Italy, where people congregate on the street much more than in the USA..I did see Italian men as much more open in their willingness to make their attraction known...they have no compunction about allowing their eyes to wander either. American men do this too but they try to hide it more...often failing miserably.

What you say about Italy is certainly true but I totally do not see that as harassment. When I moved from Italy to Germany I actually found it amusing that German guys don't really dare show you if they find you attractive.
I just don't see the big deal as long as it's harmless.

The women in Italy don't seem to mind either!! isn't that amazing? I think American women are more into their own personal space not being violated.

 

[KJbushway]

Becuase like all Americans they think they are entitled to be treated like royalty.

 

[RAMA]

Becuase like all Americans they think they are entitled to be treated like royalty.

I wouldn't go that far, though I have met the occasional "princess".

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Just wait until tomorrow. Or the day after that. You'll be begging for death.

But seriously, well done. First step into a much healthier world.

I LOVE the deep soreness of leg day when I can't walk properly for a week... He'll live.

RAMA

 

[{ Emilia }]

I've been to Italy, where people congregate on the street much more than in the USA..I did see Italian men as much more open in their willingness to make their attraction known...they have no compunction about allowing their eyes to wander either. American men do this too but they try to hide it more...often failing miserably.

What you say about Italy is certainly true but I totally do not see that as harassment. When I moved from Italy to Germany I actually found it amusing that German guys don't really dare show you if they find you attractive.
I just don't see the big deal as long as it's harmless.

The women in Italy don't seem to mind either!! isn't that amazing? I think American women are more into their own personal space not being violated.

Yeah, people here in Europe tend to joke about Americans screaming "sexual harassment!!!" and suing people for stuff like violating your "personal space".

There's interesting studies about how big that "personal space" is seen in different countries and I think in Italy it's like 5cm (that's 2 inch for you people who haven't yet adopted the metric system). Whereas Americans freak out a lot easier.

I also think it has a lot to do with self esteem. It just doesn't bother me if a guy looks at me.

 

[Spot's Meow]

I just don't see the big deal as long as it's harmless.

I think that's part of the issue here, and why stuff like that does make many women uncomfortable...how do you know that it's harmless? How do you know when it's just some nice, shy guy sneaking a peek or a total creep who is planning to follow and rape you? There's no way you can read the mind of every guy who gives you sexual attention - you really don't know if it's harmless or not until it's too late, so of course many women are going to worry and want to avoid any of that kind of attention at all.

 

[Myasishchev]

Out of 10 only 2 had something bad happen to them. So its not bad everywhere.

Yeah, you're gonna have casualties. The important thing is that we took the beach.

Wait, what?

You apparently didn't read the rest of my post or didn't qoute the rest, but to not make me look like an ass you want to do that.

I did. I was just having fun with you, although, seriously, what that says and what I'm sure you mean are two different things.

In fairness, a reproduction:

I used to be friends with alot of girls. Out of 10 only 2 had something bad happen to them. So its not bad everywhere. But when the majority of the abuse is by someone you know, its not a small problem. I seen alot of girls going through life un-touched. I would see what the actaul numbers are, but still Don't go into U.S military. More girls get raped there than civilians.

I do get women who look at me, even stare...

Do they? I had no idea.

 

[thestrangequark]

This still amazes me about you..you must have a sign on you that inspires this from men. Ok, I'm only kidding but, wow, I've never heard a woman have that much constant dis-respect!

That's exactly what I was thinking. She must be extremely unlucky I guess... no point arguing personal experiences but mine are completely different.

So I'd even argue that "it happens a lot".
Too often, yes. But a lot? Not in my world at least. Now I guess it's debatable if I live in my own little naive paradise or if it's her perception of the general situation is skewed due to her personal experiences.

Edit: Oh, Rama... I was actually kidding. I don't expect the guy to do all the work. But in theory you can just slack if you're the girl.

This is reasonable. We certainly haven't had the same kinds of experiences. I also am very aware of the fact that, because of my past, my perception could be skewed. So, being the scientifically minded creature that I am, I created guidelines for analyzing these experiences and even set up my own little experiments designed to eliminate personal bias (of course, being scientifically minded, I know the following wouldn't fly in a peer-reviewed article on the frequency and intensity of street harassment of women). See if this sounds biased to you:

For the sake of this post I'll define street harassment as something very tangible -- I'll not be talking about uncomfortable stares, but actual, measurable behavior. This includes blatantly inappropriate touching (grabbing or touching of breasts, behind, or genitals), masturbation where the penis is exposed, and verbal harassment that includes words or phrases that would be considered inappropriate by any rational individual (e.g. "Nice Pussy").

- Today I was verbally harassed 3 times.
- In a period of 4 years, 6 men exposed themselves to me and masturbated in front of me on the train.
- Since I was 18 I have been grabbed on the street 4 times, once forcibly by the arm, once on the ass, once by the hair, and once my breasts.
- I've had men follow me twice, one announced to me that he'd been following for 10 blocks. The other time a man came up to me on the train and told me he was going to follow me when I got off. He was scary as hell. I found a young couple who were getting off at my stop and asked if I could walk with them. The man followed us as we walked to the nearest bodega and called the police. Once I had a group of young men block the exit of the subway and refuse to let me pass. I had to have the station agent accompany me out.

But it's not just me.
-A friend threw away her favorite coat last year after a man ejaculated on her on the train.
-My roommate's genitals were groped las summer on the train.

With the exception of 4 of the 6 masturbation incidents, and the time the men wouldn't let me leave the station, all these incidents occurred during the day and in generally "good" neighborhoods in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens.