Just finished Destiny. Some Spoilers

[Christopher]

^The issue wasn't reparations due to culpability, it was about using their advanced technology and resources to help people in need out of the goodness of their hearts.

And instantly vs. days is kind of a moot distinction. If just a faster starship drive is enough to destabilize things, then that's already set in motion independently of the Caeliar.

 

[Mr Silver]

If just a faster starship drive is enough to destabilize things, then that's already set in motion independently of the Caeliar.

What about this scenario, in which the Caeliar directly set events in motion by giving the Federation technology and ignoring other civilisations who've suffered during the war and against the Borg?

INT: Federation council chamber

Caeliar: "On behalf of my people, I have come to offer you 'insert technology' as a token of goodwill for the trouble the Borg Collective has caused you. We hope you will find use for it during the recovery ahead."

INT: Tal Shiar intelligence outpost

Romulan Ambassador: "So the Federation are given advanced technology as a gesture of good will. What about us? The Borg destroyed our outposts, several of our people are missing in action and likely assimilated and the Borg destroyed a whole system in our territory on their way to the Federation! Yet, the Caeliar ignore us in favour of the Federation."

 

[Christopher]

^Why would the Caeliar only assist the Federation and nobody else? There's no need to worry about a scenario if it isn't likely to occur in the first place. It seems to me that if the Caeliar were willing to actively help the victims of the Borg invasion, they'd have absolutely no reason to limit that aid to only one of the affected nations.

 

[Mr Silver]

^Why would the Caeliar only assist the Federation and nobody else? There's no need to worry about a scenario if it isn't likely to occur in the first place. It seems to me that if the Caeliar were willing to actively help the victims of the Borg invasion, they'd have absolutely no reason to limit that aid to only one of the affected nations.

That's my point. The Caeliar wouldn't give technology to just the Federation as help, they'd give it to everyone affected by the Borg. To balance the equation, if you like. Therefore, there would be no bad blood between the AQ powers.

 

[TerraUnam]

We have no established range restriction for slipstream. Given that it can go from the Federation to the Delta Quadrant I imagine you could aim even further. I wouldn't be surprised if it has other-galaxy range.

As to what the Caeliar will or won't do, they aren't the same civilization anymore. It isn't established what exactly Caeliar society would look and act like after taking on all those ex Borg Drones. You have one million old original Caeliar, a former starship captain and billions of former Borg drones. All bets are off though they appear non-violent and pacifist.

The Caeliar in Destiny are, as Sci said, socially immature. They are interested only in those in the Gestalt. If you're not in, you're nobody. They have no compassion for other species and their general social skills are poor. Inyx constantly wants to meet new beings but is frustrated by his society. What good is a telepathic democracy if nobody has any dissenting thoughts?

 

[captcalhoun]

considering you can use normal warp to reach another galaxy, but it'd take, like, FOREVER, i'd imagine QS could get you to one. it' just take less-than-forever.

 

[Christopher]

That's my point. The Caeliar wouldn't give technology to just the Federation as help, they'd give it to everyone affected by the Borg. To balance the equation, if you like. Therefore, there would be no bad blood between the AQ powers.

What?? If that was your point, then why were you proposing the exact opposite scenario?

 

[Idran]

considering you can use normal warp to reach another galaxy, but it'd take, like, FOREVER, i'd imagine QS could get you to one. it' just take less-than-forever.

Indeed. What was it, a few days to get to the Delta Quadrant? There's two galaxies about as close or closer than from Earth to the Delta Quadrant - the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy and the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy - and 14 galaxies that would be within a months' travel or so at those speeds. The only issues would be the Galactic Barrier and 0 (if Q-Continuum is considered part of the overall TrekLit continuity).

 

[Mr Silver]

What?? If that was your point, then why were you proposing the exact opposite scenario?

Because I was arguing against the OP's suggestion that the Caeliar would give the Federation additional assitance with a few different scenarios.

 

[Christopher]

^But just because the OP said the Caeliar would assist the Federation, that doesn't mean they'd assist only the Federation. If they're helping everybody, then the statement that they're helping the Federation is still correct.

 

[Mr Silver]

^But just because the OP said the Caeliar would assist the Federation, that doesn't mean they'd assist only the Federation. If they're helping everybody, then the statement that they're helping the Federation is still correct.

Of course, but I was expanding upon the OP's idea to keep things simple, rather than going headfirst into interterrestial politics from the onset.

 

[JRoss]

To clarify, I'm all for them helping everyone affected by the Borg, not just the Feds. With the near-infinite amount of energy that they can generate and their thousands-strong fleet, what is wrong with acting as passenger service for refugees and replicating all the resources needed to rebuild?

 

[Deks]

Well, for one thing, they knew the Feds, Klingons and most space-faring races have the resources and technology to do it themselves.
However it does seem a bit cheap of them to just leave like that.
After all, the Caeliar are responsible for the creation of the Borg.
If they did the assimilation willingly and with proper procedure while the Caeliar were still in their right mind... the Borg thing might have been avoided.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Just noticed this thread as I was about to start a new one; I finished Destiny Book 3 last night.

This whole trilogy was great. I still think the TNG relaunch relied far too heavily on the Borg, but this trilogy alone was fantastic. I almost think it would've sat even better if we hadn't had the previous few books.

Not having watched "Enterprise" (beyond the pilot when it first aired a decade ago), I had no idea Erika Hernandez actually appeared in that show. Popped on to Memory Beta and saw a picture of her "in the flesh". Awesome. I really must get around to watching that show one day.

Only a couple of things disappointed me about the books, most are nitpicks. I do feel - in such a galaxy/time/franchise spanning event, a bit more could've been done with a DS9 character or too. I also wonder how happy Voyager fans were with the short shrift that vessel got.

My main disappointment was in the way Picard was portrayed, esp. in book 3. Yes, I know he was at an emotional low point; Borg influence; fear; etc etc. It just didn't... feel like Picard. When you have wunder-kid Ezri Dax pep-talking him it just feels... wrong. Or maybe "different". I don't know.

Just a small quibble. On the whole, a great set of books. Especially loved how the Columbia subplot tied into it all (I really didn't see it coming when I started bk 1). The scene where Sedin created her first Borg out of the survivors including Thayer was both horrifying and tragic at the same time.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Only a couple of things disappointed me about the books, most are nitpicks. I do feel - in such a galaxy/time/franchise spanning event, a bit more could've been done with a DS9 character or too. I also wonder how happy Voyager fans were with the short shrift that vessel got.

You may or may not know this already, but those perspectives are covered in more detail in Rough Beasts of Empire (in DS9's case) and Full Circle (in VOY's case).

.

 

[Christopher]

Only a couple of things disappointed me about the books, most are nitpicks. I do feel - in such a galaxy/time/franchise spanning event, a bit more could've been done with a DS9 character or too. I also wonder how happy Voyager fans were with the short shrift that vessel got.

Those omissions were deliberate. There were plans to deal with the DS9 cast in future books (which turned out to be Zero Sum Game and Rough Beasts of Empire), and to start the VGR novels up again with Full Circle, so Destiny kept those characters' involvement to a minimum to avoid stepping on the toes of what other authors were doing with those series.

 

[Relayer1]

Only a couple of things disappointed me about the books, most are nitpicks. I do feel - in such a galaxy/time/franchise spanning event, a bit more could've been done with a DS9 character or too. I also wonder how happy Voyager fans were with the short shrift that vessel got.

Those omissions were deliberate. There were plans to deal with the DS9 cast in future books (which turned out to be Zero Sum Game and Rough Beasts of Empire), and to start the VGR novels up again with Full Circle, so Destiny kept those characters' involvement to a minimum to avoid stepping on the toes of what other authors were doing with those series.

Do you know if the 5 year gap in DS9 was intended to be addressed by these books (and if so, what changed) and are there plans to 'fill the gap' ?

 

[Christopher]

Do you know if the 5 year gap in DS9 was intended to be addressed by these books (and if so, what changed) and are there plans to 'fill the gap' ?

First off, I misspoke. Destiny was actually plotted and written before the decision to jump DS9 forward. At the time, the DS9 novels were proceeding at their own pace that put them several years behind the post-Nemesis novels, and so DS9 characters were left out of Destiny to avoid spoiling the DS9 novels. At the time, a lot of fans complained about DS9 being so far behind the rest and wanted it moved forward. When Marco Palmieri, the mastermind of the DS9 novel continuity, was subsequently laid off in the 2008 economic crash, Margaret Clark inherited the DS9 novels and decided that DS9 should be moved forward so that it wouldn't have to be left out of subsequent crossovers the way it was left out of Destiny.

Margaret's plan was to jump forward, period. The DS9 post-finale continuity was Marco's baby, and I figure Margaret wisely decided she couldn't imitate what he'd done, and that it was better to get some distance from it and make a fresh start. She suggested from time to time that she might someday do an anthology or something to fill in the gap, but I don't think it was ever a definite plan, and certainly it wasn't something she wanted to do right away. Her focus was on moving forward with the new direction.

 

[BrotherBenny]

My personal opinion is that Margaret should have passed the torch to a single author or had the DS9-R outsourced to Marco or Greg or someone else to keep it going at the pace it was at. The DS9 Relaunch suffered a great deal under Margaret's aegis I'm afraid to say, but she did great with other lines. Hopefully someone will pick up the DS9 ball (DRG3 may be doing just that) and get the relaunch back on track.

 

[Christopher]

My personal opinion is that Margaret should have passed the torch to a single author or had the DS9-R outsourced to Marco or Greg or someone else to keep it going at the pace it was at. The DS9 Relaunch suffered a great deal under Margaret's aegis I'm afraid to say, but she did great with other lines.

Ummm, Margaret never edited a whole DS9R novel. She oversaw the late stages of editing on The Soul Key, a book that was outlined and written under Marco; and she initiated the Typhon Pact novels but was laid off while they were still in outline. I'm not even sure how much of the outlining work was done under her supervision. She was laid off about six months after she started the project, but I recall there was a postponement somewhere along the line.

And how could Margaret have outsourced anything to Marco or anyone else when the whole reason Marco was laid off was because Simon & Schuster decided it couldn't afford to pay for additional editors?