Just a television show...

[plynch]

(In re. greeting cards at WalMart as an indicator of bigness.)

What about, oh, Peanuts?

Probably. But there again, not Blondie, not Beetle Bailey, not Get Fuzzy. Peanuts is "more than just a comic strip."

I think I'm actually serious: Star Trek musical cards are at WalMart. Not Bonanza. Not MI. Not Man from Uncle. Not even Twilight Zone. Not Playhouse 90 (I'm trying to think of "quality/classy" here). Not Lost In Space. (fellow space opera)

EDIT - just read this in another thread -- let me know when another tv show's ship is hanging in the Smithsonian. First in the entrance, then in the holy of holies . . . THE GIFT SHOP!

Hey - how about Hallmark ornaments. Is there another TV show that has lines of ornaments? Maybe, but dang few. And those also would be "not just another show." I can't believe I'm using commercialism as my argument, but there it is. Let me know when Hallmark starts sellin UNCLE or "Voyage to the Bottom" ornaments.

Yes, Star Trek is a flawed '60s tv show, but it's an exceptional one in the literal sense of that word. Not "better," but rare, not run of the mill, in people's awareness of it and cultural references that stem from it. I am actually surprised people can argue against that, even if you think it's no better than other shows.

EDIT: Just read this in another thread -- let me know when another tv space show has its ship hanging in the Smithsonian: first in the entrance, then in the holy of holies . . . THE GIFT SHOP!! Oh yeah, and an actual space shuttle named after it. Seriously, how can one argue against this show's being not just another show? The evidence is all around us. Beam me up . . . . . .

 

[I-Am-Zim]

(In re. greeting cards at WalMart as an indicator of bigness.)

What about, oh, Peanuts?

Probably. But there again, not Blondie, not Beetle Bailey, not Get Fuzzy. Peanuts is "more than just a comic strip."

I think I'm actually serious: Star Trek musical cards are at WalMart. Not Bonanza. Not MI. Not Man from Uncle. Not even Twilight Zone. Not Playhouse 90 (I'm trying to think of "quality/classy" here). Not Lost In Space. (fellow space opera)

EDIT - just read this in another thread -- let me know when another tv show's ship is hanging in the Smithsonian. First in the entrance, then in the holy of holies . . . THE GIFT SHOP!

Hey - how about Hallmark ornaments. Is there another TV show that has lines of ornaments? Maybe, but dang few. And those also would be "not just another show." I can't believe I'm using commercialism as my argument, but there it is. Let me know when Hallmark starts sellin UNCLE or "Voyage to the Bottom" ornaments.

Yes, Star Trek is a flawed '60s tv show, but it's an exceptional one in the literal sense of that word. Not "better," but rare, not run of the mill, in people's awareness of it and cultural references that stem from it. I am actually surprised people can argue against that, even if you think it's no better than other shows.

EDIT: Just read this in another thread -- let me know when another tv space show has its ship hanging in the Smithsonian: first in the entrance, then in the holy of holies . . . THE GIFT SHOP!! Oh yeah, and an actual space shuttle named after it. Seriously, how can one argue against this show's being not just another show? The evidence is all around us. Beam me up . . . . . .

Great post! I couldn't agree more! Star Trek TOS has engrained itself into the American lexicon moreso than any other entertainment medium that I know of. I can say without any doubt that Star Trek is very much "more than just another TV show".

As for Hallmark, I'm still waiting for the "Invader Zim", "Freakazoid", "Earthworm Jim", "Eek, The Cat", and "Angry Beavers" ornaments and cards!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

EDIT: Just read this in another thread -- let me know when another tv space show has its ship hanging in the Smithsonian: first in the entrance, then in the holy of holies . . . THE GIFT SHOP!!

The "holy of holies?" Putting the thing in the gift shop was considered quite a demotion - it used to have its own display space in the museum proper. They kind of need that space for, you know, real aircraft of historic importance.

The Smithsonian has a huge collection of television memorabilia on display, mostly in the Museum of American History. The only thing exceptional about the Enterprise is that it was donated to NASM rather than a more appropriate branch, and that has caused some behind-the-scenes sparring over the decades. Still and all, Dorothy's/Judy Garland's ruby slippers draw quite the crowds...

It never did hang in the NASM entrance, BTW, unless it was a day or two at some point for a special event.

It's not at all surprising, I guess, that a BBS of Star Trek fans talking to one another would have an exaggerated sense of the importance of Star Trek.

 

[Shatnertage]

Wait...those two previous posts (101/102) weren't being sarcastic? Now I'm totally confused. If we're using inclusion in the Smithsonian as our criteria for sanctity or whatever it is we're conferring on TOS, how about Fonzie's jacket, Archie Bunker's chair, and the thousands of other artifacts in the various collections? Are all of those shows equally beyond category, or just the ones that we like?

Although for me the coolest thing about the NASM (besides all of the genuine space program artifacts) was the films on the solar system narrated by Ricardo Montalban. I don't know if they're still playing, but last time I was there (probably 8 years ago), they kept me entertained.

I'm not saying it's a not great show. I'm not saying I'm not getting this other dimension that people are layering on the show.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yup, Star Trek was just a TV show. Yup, Star Trek had a good number of crap episodes. Yup, it lasted only three years on network TV. None of this can be disputed. There were other shows which ran a lot longer and had more consistent quality.

But there is also no denying that something about it caught on to a LOT of people in a big way shortly after it entered syndication. It wasn't "a loyal group of nuts" keeping the show alive - Star Trek effing exploded into society. It was everywhere. Movie or not, Star Wars or not, Star Trek was run all over the fricking place, all over the dial, every - single - day. It crossed over from "popular TV show" like Gilligan's Island, and became a part of our lexicon.

I think the actual question being asked is "why Star Trek?" Why not Gidget, The Invaders, Lost in Space? Why were those just "fun shows" and Star Trek an influence on a generation? Why did Star Trek become a legendary TV show? Sure, it's just a TV show, but is is the most popular American TV show in history. From 1969 - 1977, every single sci-fi show aired was compared to Trek. Not by me and you, but by the media. Why would some mediocre piece of shit show be used as a measuring stick for quality?

Everyone has their reasons for getting into it, but whatever those reasons, it was one of those programs which touched so many people at the same time and snowballed. Back when TV shows hit syndication and gradually got worn out and faded, Star Trek grew and became this mammoth franchise. Meanwhile, Desilu sister program Mission:Impossible, which ran seven seasons, did poorly in syndication by comparison.

Maybe because Trek was fun, showed us working together as a society in the future (go ahead - find the black people in any Irwin Allen Sci-Fi show aside from Land of the Giants. I'll wait), was one of the very few attempts to have a serious SF program with regular characters, which was more than just guys trying to find a monster for 51 minutes.

Star Trek got popular because it finally aired in the right places at the right times. Maybe it was created a few years too early, but when people caught up, it burst like a ripe appendix. Why? Only you know the answer, because the reasons why you love it are the reasons why it became what it was.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Gotta transcribe that Roddenberry speech about the Star Trek Phenomenon from the "Inside Star Trek" CD...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But there is also no denying that something about it caught on to a LOT of people in a big way shortly after it entered syndication. It wasn't "a loyal group of nuts" keeping the show alive - Star Trek effing exploded into society. It was everywhere. Movie or not, Star Wars or not, Star Trek was run all over the fricking place, all over the dial, every - single - day. It crossed over from "popular TV show" like Gilligan's Island, and became a part of our lexicon.

Exactly so. It's enormously popular, for an old TV show. No one would argue with that.

I kind of hope that there aren't Gilligan's Island forums where folks get as wrapped around the axle as trekkies do, but I suppose it's possible. Didn't they recast Ginger in one of the TV movies? I'll bet there are "canon wars" over that one.

 

[plynch]

Thousands of other tv show artifacts on display? In what Smithsonian? I saw Archie Bunker's chair, Fonzie's jacket, Mr. Rogers' sweater. All of those, I would argue were more than just another tv show, too. Dorothy's slippers -- exactly, the Wiz. is more than just another movie.

(And I'm not kidding about the gift shop being the holy of holies. I HATE the fact that every museum experience has to end with a flurry of purchasing more things, but face it, commerce is the god of USA. The ENT is way more visible there, I just read in another thread, than when it hung way up high, too.

And another thing . . . Other than Star Wars, what sci-fi media endeavor besides Trek has had prop exhibits in science museums? How many tv shows in general have had travelling exhibits in any kind of museums?

How many tv shows have spawned conventions?

I am really just stunned that people can seriously try to make the case that ST wasn't more than just another t.v. show. I'm usually not surprised by others' opinions, though I might disagree. But, honestly, I think an objective observer examining the facts would have to say that somehow ST is more than just an average tv show.

 

[Chrisisall]

How many tv shows have spawned conventions?

I recently attended a Greatest American Hero convention in Trenton NJ, scores of people from around the globe were there, like, maybe 42!!!!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I am really just stunned that people can seriously try to make the case that ST wasn't more than just another t.v. show...somehow ST is more than just an average tv show.

Since neither "another" nor "average" appear in the topic title, your point is moot.

Star Trek is just a popular TV show. It's an ongoing part of pop culture like "Superman" or "Batman" or James Bond. It's not some kind of significant philosophical or technological vision or blueprint for the future, it's not a religious or social movement and it's not brushing the boundaries of high art. It's for watching and having fun with.

 

[plynch]

It's an ongoing part of pop culture. . . .

Thank you. That's what I've been saying.

You are right that Star Trek is "an ongoing part of pop culture," thus not "just a television show" as most people would interpret that phrase.

Since neither "another" nor "average" appear in the topic title, your point is moot. . . . It's not some kind of significant philosophical or technological vision or blueprint for the future, it's not a religious or social movement and it's not brushing the boundaries of high art.

To paraphrase, since I never said Star Trek was a religious/social movement or high art, your rejoinder is "moot."

It's an ongoing part of pop culture. . . .

Yep, you're still right.

Fun sparring. Be well!

 

[Shatnertage]

I am really just stunned that people can seriously try to make the case that ST wasn't more than just another t.v. show...somehow ST is more than just an average tv show.

Since neither "another" nor "average" appear in the topic title, your point is moot.

Star Trek is just a popular TV show. It's an ongoing part of pop culture like "Superman" or "Batman" or James Bond. It's not some kind of significant philosophical or technological vision or blueprint for the future, it's not a religious or social movement and it's not brushing the boundaries of high art. It's for watching and having fun with.

This is it.

Especially the last sentence.

 

[Ubik]

I apologize....I haven't read through all 8 pages here, so this may have been said before. But the truth of the first Star Trek series is that it is very popular, but in no way, or at least extremely rarely, is it brilliant science fiction, or brilliant drama. The fact that it is extremely likable, and popular, and influential, is not a comment on its quality as art. So no, of course it's not "just" a television show, any more than McDonald's is "just" a restaurant, or James Bond is "just" a fictional spy. Anything that has such a profound influence on people's tastes is clearly significant in a social and cultural way.

But it ain't great writing. The writers of the original Star Trek are not Shakespeare, nor are they Asimov, Aldiss, Clarke, or Heinlein, or Dick, or Ellison, or...The filmed format was not new (it came largely from Forbidden Planet), and the ideas were dumbed-down warmed over notions from earlier, more interesting science fiction literature. The one thing it DID have that was new artistically, and I am sure the only reason it caught on, was the likability and comfort supplied by the characters and the actors' performances. Again, the performances aren't great - Nimoy and Shatner are not De Niro or Pacino. But they're easy to watch, easy to care about, and don't challenge us too much.

I absolutely love Star Trek. In fact, I love the first 3 shows (Voyager and Enterprise are not only "just" television shows, they're "just" terrible ones). But I love them the way I love Star Wars. They're great product, fantastic product. But they're not significant artistically. Not the way so much science fiction literature is.

 

[Chrisisall]

It's not some kind of significant philosophical or technological vision or blueprint for the future, it's not a religious or social movement and it's not brushing the boundaries of high art.

It kept me sane from 6th through 9th grade.
Put that in your Funk & Wagnalls.

 

[number6]

Of course it was just a TV show. Of course it was more than that to those who cared about it. The phrase was meant to demean those obsessive fans who scrutinize every frame of film and debate the merits of grid lines on a model hanging in the Smithsonian and what Spock's makeup is "supposed" to look like in Hi Def, not the show itself, which most common folk would acknowledge as being a significant part of TV pop culture alongside shows like M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore, I Love Lucy, All In the Family, and the Honeymooners, all of which were also just TV shows.

 

[Chrisisall]

shows like M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore, I Love Lucy, All In the Family, and the Honeymooners

What were those, British series?

 

[xortex]

Is it my imagination or does it not look like anything else on t.v.? It just has a surreal quality about it. Everything else is so dark and gringy even illuminated. Is that just the lighting and bright colors? What the heck is that?

 

[GSchnitzer]

I think there is a path on which things travel on their way towards becoming a philosophical or technological vision or blueprint for the future, or towards a religious or social movement. I don’t think such things emerge instantaneously, fully grown like Athena from the brow of Zeus. I think they probably pass through an “ongoing part of pop culture” stage first.

I doubt that as the shepherds in ancient Greece passed along their oral traditions of gods and goddesses that they realized at the time that thousands of years later, people would still be telling those stories.

“You know, Eraclitus, people are going to be telling these stories for thousands of years.”

“Don’t be an idiot, Dionyd. These are just popular stories, meant to be enjoyed. They aren’t particularly well written and the ideas aren’t really new. What makes you think people will still be telling them millennia from now?”

I also doubt that as other new stories were written in the early centuries of the first millennium BCE that people thought “Wow! What an important Earth-changing religious movement we seem to have here!” And, of course, the same goes for stories of Muhammad a half millennium later.

I remember in Arthur C. Clarke's book 3001: The Final Odyssey--after astronaut Frank Poole awakens a thousand years from when he had been lost in space, people know all the characters in and are still quoting and referencing scenes from Star Trek---just as we still know about Zeus and Apollo and Heracles from millennia ago.

Yes, a thousand years from now, I think people will still know exactly who Captain Kirk and Mister Spock were. Heck, Hamlet is already 400 years old. I think Shakespeare is probably on the same path towards some kind of societal transcendence that marches through “ongoing part of pop culture” as an initial step--just as the canonization of saints first must pass through the veneration and beatification stages.

Of course, I don’t actually know what legacy Star Trek will have 1000 years from now. I agree that it’s not chock-full of great writing. But on the other hand, I don’t think the Bible got to where it got because of its great writing either (but then I don’t read Aramaic). However, I do recognize the paths that a lot of things have taken that resulted in a cultural dead-end with no cultural legacy at all—things like My Mother the Car and POGs. If there is a path that results in some kind of long-term legacy, I think it probably looks pretty much like the path we have been seeing in Star Trek for the past 46 years. Although it has a long way to go, Star Trek, so far, seems to have avoided the My Mother the Car/POGs dead-end paths. Star Trek looks like something qualitatively different to me—not just quantitatively different from all the other dead-end things.

 

[Chrisisall]

May the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless you, and the above- the finest post on this thread!

 

[Kelso]

Gotta transcribe that Roddenberry speech about the Star Trek Phenomenon from the "Inside Star Trek" CD...

CD? Does that have the same content as the "Inside Star Trek" record from the 70's? If so, good stuff.