I posted this on another board, but wanted to bring it over here as well.
Joss Whedon to direct The Avengers
- Thread starter Starbreaker
- Start date
That 'beef' is something that I really don't understand, especially in light of the analyses I provided, so could you please explain yourself in more detail?
Well, you asked.
You possibly never saw it, but there's an absolutely ridiculous fight scene in Dollhouse's 'Man on the Street'. Yes, it's well executed and even pretty brutal by modern TV standards but it's still a huge, muscular guy up against someone who looks like Eliza Dushku. I'm not sure how much 'training' you need to have downloaded in to your head before the bones in your face suddenly become unbreakable.
Then, later in the episode, in one of the series more shocking moments, Mellie turns from frightened victim to unstoppable assassin upon hearing a code phrase over the phone. She goes from fleeing from her attacker to turning around and easily killing him. Again, this scene asks you to ignore the fact that it's total nonsense.
Later in the series, she hears the same code again, and Ballard is scared of her.
Now, here's the thing that I think illustrates my point the best. Over the course of the series, there are plenty of times where it was necessary for the Dollhouse to send an Active in to a situation where combat would be necessary. They invariably send Echo or Sierra who are both relatively small women. It is not until the penultimate episode that Victor - who we later learn used to be a solider! - or any of the male Actives are seen being given combat skills.
As a result, I just hope it's Firefly Joss that turns up and not Buffy Season Seven The Power of Women is Held Back By Rules Made By Evil Men Joss that turns up.
Or, even worse, Those Captivity Posters Are Sexist Joss.
Thanks for the explanation, Hermiod; I wasn't aware of the trend with DH, but would like to point out, though, that, like Buffy, DH is a series focused on a female protagonist, and, to a degree, was created with a premise that justified Joss being able to indulge in some of his more extreme feminist storytelling tendencies; The Avengers really doesn't lend itself to that type of storytelling, and, as I previously pointed out in my analyses, there is much in his other works that sort of balance things out in the end, and show that he's not the kind of writer to automatically indulge in said tendencies.
I'm also still not sure that the DH situation in and of itself justifies automatically making the assumption that, if more female characters are added, Joss is going to turn The Avengers into a 'girl-power festival'.
I'm also still not sure that the DH situation in and of itself justifies automatically making the assumption that, if more female characters are added, Joss is going to turn The Avengers into a 'girl-power festival'.
I have no trouble believing that muscle memory, agility, and fighting skills can trump brute strength easily.
Now, if both combatants have equal skill, an edge in strength will probably win the fight. But it's just an advantage, not a decisive factor.
I haven't watched the fight in question since it first aired, so I can't comment on that particular brawl directly.
Now, if both combatants have equal skill, an edge in strength will probably win the fight. But it's just an advantage, not a decisive factor.
I haven't watched the fight in question since it first aired, so I can't comment on that particular brawl directly.
As I've tried to say, I hope the Joss who creates shows that make me angry when they get canceled shows up and not the one who tries to make us feel sympathy for evil man-hating demons.
No, getting hit in the face very, very hard by someone twice your size is a decisive factor. It's why fighting sports have weight classes, why we use phrases starting with "pound for pound" to describe guys like Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao.
Yes, but with sufficient agility, a weaker opponent could dodge or at least deflect such strikes indefinitely.
If she had done that I wouldn't have a problem. She didn't.
^ I always figured part of the reasoning was that the targets are caught off-guard when this small woman suddenly turns into Rambo. The attack comes from a direction they never expected.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Even given your distaste for what he did on DH, why are you automatically assuming that there is going to be anything to worry about on that front vis a vis The Avengers? Yes, Joss is a noted feminist, and, as you informed me, he has done some stuff in the past that indulges his most extreme storytelling tendencies in that regard, but what is there about The Avengers, per se, that makes you worried that he'll do something similar with this project?
I don't think Joss favors women in his writing. I just think he's one of the few that actually writes solid, relatable female characters.
He has the opportunity to pad the cast out with superheroine characters if he so wishes. I doubt it will happen, but with Joss there is always this nagging doubt that he will allow them to overshadow the main characters in this film - Iron Man, Cap, Thor and, to a lesser degree, the Hulk.
I'm sure that if Widow is only treated as a supporting character, we'll get all the same boring complaints - we'll just do a search and replace on all of last year's complaints and swap "Uhura" for "Black Widow".
As I've tried to make clear, there's a side to Joss I love and a side I find lazy and irritating. Maybe 98% of Dollhouse after the horrible studio imposed first five episodes was great, but there's always the 2% - Echo beating up guys twice her size or spouting off ignorant bullshit while dressed in a horribly stereotyped dominatrix outfit - that make me realise his limitations.
Yeah. She totally should have been naked instead. Hell of a limitation.
I'm serious. Whoever wrote the BDSM discussion in that episode between Echo and Langton and then Langton and Saunders is an pig ignorant fool.
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