Jonathan Nolan developing Asimov's Foundation to HBO

[HIjol]

Actually the head of the Second Foundation "broke" the Mule in just a few moments.

I'd argue that it was more than just a few moments. The Second Foundation had been running a years-long psyop on the Mule, to get him to believe things that weren't true. The Mule was already worn down by the time the Second Foundation engaged him directly.

The direct confrontation was short. I don't recall the Mule as being a special protege that was more powerful than the Second Foundation, but perhaps my memory is fuzzy.

The actual,"few moments" were really just a few seconds, when the Mule learns that he has been completely out thunk and checkmated by the First Speaker: the Mule's man Channis was a tool of the 2nd, and all his knowledge was false, so the Mule also had flawed info. And First Speaker told the Mule a fleet was on the way to undo all of his "Conversions." The Mule let down for one second and , poof, no more memory!

I've actually heard that they want to stick to the original trilogy, which somewhat makes me nervous now. In a way, it's fine because that's largely what is known, but if I were making a TV series, I wouldn't stop there. I'd take all I can from all books to make a cohesive amount of content enough to fill a TV series.

I heartily agree with you, and I think we will get our wish IF the Trilogy, in whatever form, does well. My only concern is that I am 57 and I might not get to see it all!!!!

Asimov in 1950 is not the same person as Asimov in 1990.

The machine behind Asimov, his agents and editors and forces driving him to write for an audience local to two distant points of the 20th century, where their collective knowledge of psychology and technology where like chalk and cheese.

Isaac had grown, matured, and changed.

If Asimov had tried to write the sequels and prequels in he 1950s, it would have been for a 1950s audience and therefore completely different books, so he might as well be a different person to do what he did when he did. Similar, very similar but also very different.

I also said that Mick Jagger 2005 was in a cover band of the Rolling Stones 1967.

But you can say that about any artist who makes art over a long enough period of their life--and artists will be the first to acknowledge it.

This is why we often refer to early/middle/late periods of an artist's career be it a painter, musician, writer, actor or whatever. Beethoven's Ninth symphony comes from a distinctly different personality than his second symphony for example.

The exception being Leonard Cohen who was always writing as an old man and needed decades to grow into the songs he wrote on his early albums.

Agree and agree! Guy, you could really tell that as Asimov grew older, his writing ripened and he got even more interesting and expressive. And theenglish, very well put. Plus, Leonard Cohen!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Filming locations?

Europe, Australia, Canada or even America?

Trantor is completely inside, and Terminus is a hole. Mineral poor doesn't necessarily mean Scotland in he middle of a storm, but then maybe it does?

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ 100% green screen.

I suppose considering how pissed the crowd was that Hari didn't have boo to say about the Mule that the vault recordings are fixed and the second Foundation can't tweak the material.

No, they have to tweak the galaxy to match the recordings.

My one problem with the revelation in Foundation's Edge that the Mule was a renegade Gaian is that the Second Foundation was completely in the dark about Gaia's existence in FE. It seems to me that their confrontation with the Mule would have led them to the discovery of Gaia before the events of FE. In short, I don't really accept the retcon of the Mule's origins; I prefer the original, which was that the Mule was simply a mutant with extreme telepathic powers.

Didn't the Gaians finesse the Second Foundation into either not discovering them or forgetting them?

 

[Guy Gardener]

My memories on this are sketchy and I might be making stuff up. The Gaians are networked telepaths existing as a single blissful entity (The death of individuality seems harsh. Maybe they are networked while retaining a version of individuality?) in tune with (and in control of) their environment (which means the planet they are standing on and all the planets networked to that planet.).

The Gaians are nontechnological which means that they are parasitical to a point? They need the Foundations Spaceships to spread Gia across the galaxy unless they can reach out telepathically and "infect" other worlds? Yeah, they don't need ships.

This all happened at the 500 year mark and the deal struck between the representative of the Foundation and the ego of Gia at the end of the book was that they would both try to save the galaxy, and may the best remedy win.

Unless Gaia's network spread across the galaxy without turning everyone into the outward manifestation of an Eloi as Gia was conquering world after world, it seems that the Foundation would be super pissed by a telepathic infection destroying free will and human individuality until every bugger is a hippy zombie content to live in a weather controlled field and eat fruit off trees... And this is also why the Federation will execute any one that goes to Talos IV. It does seem like a similar problem?

It's also like season 4 of Angel where team Angel defeated a serious attempt at world peace because they didn't like the gorgeous coco sensation bringing world peace about, and the forces of evil, all the elder gods were so impressed, that they gave Angel a Law Firm as a reward for stopping world peace.

Asimov was deeply religious, so it's possible that his concept of Heaven was Gaia, where complete "happiness" is not something that a person should think to fight against?

I mean if you were completely happy, you wouldn't even want to make babies, which means the hivemind would have to force you to have babies and then force you to raise them which would seriously mellow the bliss from being part of Gia don't you think?

(Gaia also almost sounds like a benign version of what the Ori had going on in he final season of Star gate SG1. Networked control.)

 

[Silvercrest]

I thought he was an atheist.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, Asimov was very much an atheist and a secular humanist. He wrote extensively on the Bible, but he approached it from a secular perspective as a literary and historical text. He even said, "Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry if I confused that writing enough about religion meant that he had faith in religion.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Asimov in 1950 is not the same person as Asimov in 1990.

Well, that much is obvious, just like early Clarke was not the same as later Clarke. That is essentially an artist's growth. Nobody can claim to be the same from beginning to end. We all learn a little wisdom throughout our lives. But that said, you're missing my point, the fact being that if they are putting together a TV series, they'll need all that they can have access to from within the series of books in order to craft their story, that those ideas should not be limited to the original trilogy, even if structurally it is based on the trilogy. So, in other words, If they're producing it based on the trilogy, why should they be limited to the ideas and concepts put forward in the trilogy? It's not about padding. It's about putting together something cohesive enough to be called a TV series with all its backstory and lore.

It will likely be heavily modernized, with only its core themes being recognizable anyway, so why not borrow from the whole shebang?

Take Hari Seldon for example. Who is he and why should the viewers care about him? We don't actually know very much about him and he only shows up via holo-recordings at pre-determined years. That might work in a novel, but as viewers, we'll need a bit more than that, like his motivations and how psychohistory came to be. Including some insights from the prequels while the main core story of the trilogy is being told would help flesh out his character and strengthen the core themes.

 

[Christopher]

But that said, you're missing my point, the fact being that if they are putting together a TV series, they'll need all that they can have access to from within the series of books in order to craft their story, that those ideas should not be limited to the original trilogy, even if structurally it is based on the trilogy. So, in other words, If they're producing it based on the trilogy, why should they be limited to the ideas and concepts put forward in the trilogy? It's not about padding. It's about putting together something cohesive enough to be called a TV series with all its backstory and lore.

Exactly. Look at Batman: The Animated Series. It was an amalgam of ideas and storylines from over two decades of Batman comics, from the '70s through the early '90s. Other notable comics adaptations in animation, like the '90s Spider-Man and The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, similarly drew on elements from different stories spanning decades and combined them in a new way, distilling the best of the whole shebang rather than limiting themselves to one part of it. If you've got a whole large universe of ideas to draw on, it would be foolish not to take advantage of the whole shebang.

Good grief, that's the whole value of an adaptation -- the fact that it gives you a second chance. No work of series fiction is perfect the first time out. It's going to have stronger parts and weaker parts, and parts that didn't quite come together initially but then got improved on by new ideas added in later installments. An adaptation gives you the chance to pick out the best parts from the whole and consolidate them, while leaving out the parts that were more forgettable or didn't work so well. And of course it gives you the chance to add whole new ideas to the mix, like when B:TAS added Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya to the Batman mythos.

 

[Zaku]

The Formula for Every HBO Show

 

[Owain Taggart]

Well said, Christopher. Agreed

And I'm excited all over again...

 

[HIjol]

First off, I doubt they'd use stock music to score it rather than hiring an original composer. That's not generally done in this day and age. Second, back in the days when it was done, Holst's The Planets was used to score so many sci-fi productions that by now it's just about the most cliched idea imaginable.

Besides, a composition that's about the planets of the Solar System (or really, the mythological deities they're named after) hardly seems appropriate for a series set in a far-future galactic civilization where the Solar System is a forgotten, insignificant backwater.

I suggested Holst backthread a bit for his feel and sound and majesty. Certainly not as a stock soundtrack, and I think it would be interesting if someone like Horner or Shore or Howard to supply their take on Holst, but certainly NOT to make Holst the only aspect of the soundtrack. A little armchair research I did came up with approximately 60 uses of "Holst, The Planets" in movies/TV, between 1937 and 2013. Interestingly enough, only about 20% of the uses were for Science Fiction. I think using Holst as a part of the 'track would suit, and match and enhance the overall souns of the movie!

I'd argue that it was more than just a few moments. The Second Foundation had been running a years-long psyop on the Mule, to get him to believe things that weren't true. The Mule was already worn down by the time the Second Foundation engaged him directly.

The direct confrontation was short. I don't recall the Mule as being a special protege that was more powerful than the Second Foundation, but perhaps my memory is fuzzy.

I agree the direct confrontation was short. I was only arguing that the Second Foundation worked for a long time to get him into a position where, mentally, all they needed to make was a surgical strike. They chose the field of battle, and they were in control once they had him in position.

My one problem with the revelation in Foundation's Edge that the Mule was a renegade Gaian is that the Second Foundation was completely in the dark about Gaia's existence in FE. It seems to me that their confrontation with the Mule would have led them to the discovery of Gaia before the events of FE. In short, I don't really accept the retcon of the Mule's origins; I prefer the original, which was that the Mule was simply a mutant with extreme telepathic powers.

Totally agree here,Allyn Gibson! Plus, it fits better with the notion of an outlier to the overall statistic. Something the Second Foundation could not/did not predict.

But that said, you're missing my point, the fact being that if they are putting together a TV series, they'll need all that they can have access to from within the series of books in order to craft their story, that those ideas should not be limited to the original trilogy, even if structurally it is based on the trilogy. So, in other words, If they're producing it based on the trilogy, why should they be limited to the ideas and concepts put forward in the trilogy? It's not about padding. It's about putting together something cohesive enough to be called a TV series with all its backstory and lore.

Exactly. Look at Batman: The Animated Series. It was an amalgam of ideas and storylines from over two decades of Batman comics, from the '70s through the early '90s. Other notable comics adaptations in animation, like the '90s Spider-Man and The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, similarly drew on elements from different stories spanning decades and combined them in a new way, distilling the best of the whole shebang rather than limiting themselves to one part of it. If you've got a whole large universe of ideas to draw on, it would be foolish not to take advantage of the whole shebang.

Good grief, that's the whole value of an adaptation -- the fact that it gives you a second chance. No work of series fiction is perfect the first time out. It's going to have stronger parts and weaker parts, and parts that didn't quite come together initially but then got improved on by new ideas added in later installments. An adaptation gives you the chance to pick out the best parts from the whole and consolidate them, while leaving out the parts that were more forgettable or didn't work so well. And of course it gives you the chance to add whole new ideas to the mix, like when B:TAS added Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya to the Batman mythos.

Yes, of course, as long as the original flavor and reflection of the time of what came to be the first three books were written is not lost!

The Formula for Every HBO Show

 

[Guy Gardener]

What should the principle behind groundcars be in he series?

a. A car with wheels? Nothing special.

b. A hovercraft as we understand a hovercraft?

c. Some sort of skiff using repulsor/antigravity to float a foot off the ground like a hovercraft.

d. Tanktreads?

Why even bother calling them ground cars, if there are not other sorts of cars?

Sea cars.

Air cars.

Space cars.

Undergound cars.

 

[Cicero]

Nolan took 2 and half hours to tell a half hour episode of the Twighlight Zone to me last night.

I don't trust him.

Michael Cain is obviously going to be Harry Seldon.

I'm holding out hope for John Hurt.



It's hard to be excited, given HBO's usual output, but I really want to be. Foundation is of its time, but also of a very particular mindset (which I don't think Asimov ever recaptured when he returned to fiction, except in Forward the Foundation).

HBO's original series have generally been motivated by a very different outlook (and general television/film by still another, shallower and more commercial perspective). I hope the adaptation is faithful to the original in spirit (and in certain particulars). If it is, I'll either subscribe to HBO or buy the series outright on iTunes.

I suppose what I'm hoping is that the series will retain its elegance and single-minded-ness. Though, I'll settle for something more like Band of Brothers or From the Earth to the Moon than like HBO's other original programming.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I wasn't completely sure if Walter Matthau was alive or dead.

He's dead.

Lets see, who else strikes my fancy?

Ian McDiarmid

Mike Ehrmantraut

Robert Redford.

Gilbert Gottfried

Betty White.

Alan Alder

Woody Allen

Mandy Patinkin

Stan Lee

John Cleese

Bill Cobbs

Sam Waterson

Alan Arkin

Kieth David

Martin Landau

Chuck Norris.

Beau Bridges.

Dick VanDyke

Mel Brooks.

 

[HIjol]

What should the principle behind groundcars be in he series?

a. A car with wheels? Nothing special.

b. A hovercraft as we understand a hovercraft?

c. Some sort of skiff using repulsor/antigravity to float a foot off the ground like a hovercraft.

d. Tanktreads?

Why even bother calling them ground cars, if there are not other sorts of cars?

Sea cars.

Air cars.

Space cars.

Undergound cars.

Something along the lines of a more retro version of the Audis in Minority Report?

Pppv

Nolan took 2 and half hours to tell a half hour episode of the Twighlight Zone to me last night.

I don't trust him.

Michael Cain is obviously going to be Harry Seldon.

I'm holding out hope for John Hurt.



It's hard to be excited, given HBO's usual output, but I really want to be. Foundation is of its time, but also of a very particular mindset (which I don't think Asimov ever recaptured when he returned to fiction, except in Forward the Foundation).

HBO's original series have generally been motivated by a very different outlook (and general television/film by still another, shallower and more commercial perspective). I hope the adaptation is faithful to the original in spirit (and in certain particulars). If it is, I'll either subscribe to HBO or buy the series outright on iTunes.

I suppose what I'm hoping is that the series will retain its elegance and single-minded-ness. Though, I'll settle for something more like Band of Brothers or From the Earth to the Moon than like HBO's other original programming.

So glad someone else is saying this also,

 

[Guy Gardener]

What's done with the time vault in the decades between screenings?

Methink's Councilmen and Councilwomen of the Foundation use it for emergency nooky.

You'd think that it's "good luck" to conceive a child in there, that a lot of people would be having HBO sex in the time vault, not that that adds to the story, but cops are catching people doing it on he presidents lap all the time at the Lincoln Memorial, so why can't art imitate life?

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That's one way to work sex into it.

Maybe they'll cast William Shatner as Seldon. If he'll do Haven, he'll do Foundation. And he'd probably jump at the chance to portray another iconic character.

Actually, I think Scott Bakula would make a great Seldon.

My memories on this are sketchy and I might be making stuff up. The Gaians are networked telepaths existing as a single blissful entity (The death of individuality seems harsh. Maybe they are networked while retaining a version of individuality?) in tune with (and in control of) their environment (which means the planet they are standing on and all the planets networked to that planet.).

Bliss demonstrated individuality, despite being part of the hive mind. And I don't think being happy or networked would diminish the desire to create children-- it would just amount to cultivating a new part of the greater self. Not that I approve of Gaia or Galaxia.

 

[HIjol]

What's done with the time vault in the decades between screenings?

Seldonian Ritual Dances, Like in Zion in the Matrix

Methink's Councilmen and Councilwomen of the Foundation use it for emergency nooky.

Hmmm...perhaps a tribute could be paid for ritualistic sex, and the Seldon Priests (not canon) could preside and predict the future of the "Sexees" (not canon)

You'd think that it's "good luck" to conceive a child in there, that a lot of people would be having HBO sex in the time vault, not that that adds to the story, but cops are catching people doing it on he presidents lap all the time at the Lincoln Memorial, so why can't art imitate life?

And, taking that idea a step further, HBO (not canon) works its existence and logo into the story, a la Blade Runner (not canon)
and has an HBO Seldon store on-site, to sell talismans and trinkets to the faithful. Also, for future marketing tie-ins for additional profit. Not. Canon.

^^ That's one way to work sex into it.

Which, of course, will help in the trailers.

Maybe they'll cast William Shatner as Seldon. If he'll do Haven, he'll do Foundation. And he'd probably jump at the chance to portray another iconic character.

What an incredibly horrifying and excellent idea!

Actually, I think Scott Bakula would make a great Seldon.

My memories on this are sketchy and I might be making stuff up. The Gaians are networked telepaths existing as a single blissful entity (The death of individuality seems harsh. Maybe they are networked while retaining a version of individuality?) in tune with (and in control of) their environment (which means the planet they are standing on and all the planets networked to that planet.).

Bliss demonstrated individuality, despite being part of the hive mind. And I don't think being happy or networked would diminish the desire to create children-- it would just amount to cultivating a new part of the greater self. Not that I approve of Gaia or Galaxia.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zaku]

Hari Seldon in Prelude to Foundation is depicted as a quite skilled martial artist (Heliconian Twisting, if you are interested).

So, we can also have violence, in HBO style!