Jonathan Nolan developing Asimov's Foundation to HBO

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Yeah, they'd almost have to, if they expect it to run for a while. Also, I wonder if they are going to stick to the original trilogy or include the prequels and sequels, including the elements from the Robot books. The prequels and sequels would actually be much easier to serialize than the original stories.

While the books themselves do not have much action (and much less tits and dicks like GoT) it doesn't really matter because it's not Star Wars and never was.

Yeah, but the problem is if they try to turn it into Star Wars. HBO doesn't seem like the type of channel to do Masterpiece Theater.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Game of Thrones does a hell of lot of looooooooooooooooooong speeches but they balance that against extreme violence and boobs.

 

[HIjol]

As I remember it, the first three "Foundation" books would stand alone just fine as three "movies." What might be the case is that "they" may be tempted to "fill in" with jump forward- jump back storytelling, to compress the overall narrative.

I hate even thinking this, but does anyone else have anything like "Dobby" looking creature in their brain as a good "Mule" character?.

 

[Christopher]

As I remember it, the first three books would stand alone just fine as three "movies."

More like six to eight movies, maybe. The so-called "Foundation Trilogy" was actually a three-volume collection of eight separate stories/novelettes. There's nothing about the stories themselves that divides naturally into three groupings; that was purely an arbitrary decision on the part of the publisher that compiled them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

One book equals one season?

One novella/chapter equals one season?

How long is a season?

6 to 8 episodes?

The smaller fraction of the book they are interested in serializing per year, the smaller their season should be.

Three 2 hour long episodes?

Considering that there's very little bleed over with actors between stories that the only person who has to sign on for the entire series if it takes 3 years or longer is Michael Caine... Who should really film all his time vault stuff at the same time over the course of a week or two right at the very, very beginning... Which would require a mostly completed script for the entire event, not that How I Met your Mother followed to the letter any plan they wrote down during preproduction of season 1.

I say this because Michael Caine is so old that he's probably going to die soon.

Which would make a super dramatic effect if these things are still coming out 5 years after he's buried.

Which would be tragic if the series is shit and cancelled, so that dead Michael Caine has filmed 3 years worth of a tv show they is never going to be made.

Bad Nolan!

If they don't go for Caine, who is one of Nolan's favourites, then they really should stalk a big name that only has three months to live, and promise that the show will come out a week after they kick it to scare the shit out of people.



Imagine the advertising!

"I'm a corpse and I play one on TV too."

"Death is a punk bitch! Fuck Death!"

 

[HIjol]

As I remember it, the first three books would stand alone just fine as three "movies."

More like six to eight movies, maybe. The so-called "Foundation Trilogy" was actually a three-volume collection of eight separate stories/novelettes. There's nothing about the stories themselves that divides naturally into three groupings; that was purely an arbitrary decision on the part of the publisher that compiled them.

I of course a yield to your expertise and experience in these matters, but what I should have perhaps made clearer is that my statement about "...one book, one movie to make three movies" was based on my opinion that, like LOtR, each book was fine for each movie.

One book equals one season?

One novella/chapter equals one season?

How long is a season?

6 to 8 episodes?

The smaller fraction of the book they are interested in serializing per year, the smaller their season should be.

Three 2 hour long episodes?

Considering that there's very little bleed over with actors between stories that the only person who has to sign on for the entire series if it takes 3 years or longer is Michael Caine... Who should really film all his time vault stuff at the same time over the course of a week or two right at the very, very beginning... Which would require a mostly completed script for the entire event, not that How I Met your Mother followed to the letter any plan they wrote down during preproduction of season 1.

I say this because Michael Caine is so old that he's probably going to die soon.

Which would make a super dramatic effect if these things are still coming out 5 years after he's buried.

Which would be tragic if the series is shit and cancelled, so that dead Michael Caine has filmed 3 years worth of a tv show they is never going to be made.

Bad Nolan!

If they don't go for Caine, who is one of Nolan's favourites, then they really should stalk a big name that only has three months to live, and promise that the show will come out a week after they kick it to scare the shit out of people.



Imagine the advertising!

"I'm a corpse and I play one on TV too."

"Death is a punk bitch! Fuck Death!"

I LOVE your idea of Michael Caine, and if he loves it as much as we love it, we can keep him alive like the Tessier-Ashpool clan in Gibson's world, and bring him up when we need him.

 

[Christopher]

Given that Asimov's Foundation tales are very, very talky and wouldn't necessarily lend themselves well to a direct adaptation, I think the best approach is to use them simply as a launching point, as the basis for the universe of the show, and let the show's writers tell stories about that universe in their own way. It was said above that the major events in the stories/books tend to take place offstage, so the obvious answer is simply to shift focus and depict those events as they're happening -- basically cover the same unfolding history (more or less) from a different perspective and with different emphasis.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You haven't read the books (recently)?

Do you remember that piece of #### I Robot?

You can't give these Hollywood people rope.

They will hang themselves.

Every bloody time.

 

[Owain Taggart]

^^ Yeah, they'd almost have to, if they expect it to run for a while. Also, I wonder if they are going to stick to the original trilogy or include the prequels and sequels, including the elements from the Robot books. The prequels and sequels would actually be much easier to serialize than the original stories.

I'd wondered about that. They might as well include the prequels as those are great staging points. They might also as well forget Foundation & Earth existed and create something different. The prequels he wrote after that were much better.

 

[HIjol]

I understand what Christopher is saying, but I think there is one thing that might keep "them" from messing with the order of the story regardless of its origin as novelettes or short stories or what have you. That thing is, the way the story unfolds in our heads because of the way we read it: the first three books.

 

[Christopher]

I understand what Christopher is saying, but I think there is one thing that might keep "them" from messing with the order of the story regardless of its origin as novelettes or short stories or what have you. That thing is, the way the story unfolds in our heads because of the way we read it: the first three books.

Except that a TV series is not made for the relatively small number of people who are familiar with the books. It's made for the much larger number of people who haven't read the books, who probably never will, and most likely are just looking for an entertaining TV series. Lots of TV adaptations of books take enormous liberties -- for instance FlashForward, which used the basic premise of Robert Sawyer's novel (the whole population experiencing a glimpse of the future) but totally changed the timeframe, cause, and context of the flashforward and only used one of the book's main characters, shifting the focus from scientists to federal agents. Or The Dresden Files, which kept more of the core characters and ideas from the books but told mostly original stories rather than adapting the novels. Or The 100, which left out one of the main viewpoint characters from the YA novel it's based on and killed off one of the others in the third or fourth episode.

And really, that's the best way to proceed. If you want the story from the books, you can always read the books. The priority for the TV series should be to make the best possible TV series. It's probably best just to use the core concepts and characters as a starting point for creating a new interpretation of the premise, one that's designed to work as a TV series. See it as approaching the same problem from a different direction. If it's done well, you get two very different perspectives on the concept, and that parallax can be quite rewarding.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Interesting.

I have yet to read the books (probably because they do come off talky) but I might be inclined to if the tentative series proves interesting.

With J. Nolan handling things, I guess the proposed Roland Emmerich involvement didn't pan out. (Not that I was looking forward to it, given the latest products from Mr. Emmerich).

 

[sidious618]

I'm not a huge fan of Asimov's writing, but a lot of the ideas in the Foundation series are cool so I'm excited to hear this. Jonathan Nolan and HBO working together would be more than enough to get me excited, though.

 

[HIjol]

I understand what Christopher is saying, but I think there is one thing that might keep "them" from messing with the order of the story regardless of its origin as novelettes or short stories or what have you. That thing is, the way the story unfolds in our heads because of the way we read it: the first three books.

Except that a TV series is not made for the relatively small number of people who are familiar with the books. It's made for the much larger number of people who haven't read the books, who probably never will, and most likely are just looking for an entertaining TV series. Lots of TV adaptations of books take enormous liberties -- for instance FlashForward, which used the basic premise of Robert Sawyer's novel (the whole population experiencing a glimpse of the future) but totally changed the timeframe, cause, and context of the flashforward and only used one of the book's main characters, shifting the focus from scientists to federal agents. Or The Dresden Files, which kept more of the core characters and ideas from the books but told mostly original stories rather than adapting the novels. Or The 100, which left out one of the main viewpoint characters from the YA novel it's based on and killed off one of the others in the third or fourth episode.

And really, that's the best way to proceed. If you want the story from the books, you can always read the books. The priority for the TV series should be to make the best possible TV series. It's probably best just to use the core concepts and characters as a starting point for creating a new interpretation of the premise, one that's designed to work as a TV series. See it as approaching the same problem from a different direction. If it's done well, you get two very different perspectives on the concept, and that parallax can be quite rewarding.

What you say is true from my perspective: I am one of the "relative few" that has read the books. I guess a version of the potential movie(s) has been playing in my head for more than 40 years, since I first read them, but it is "my" version. Maybe not one that would play to the masses.

 

[HIjol]

Interesting.

I have yet to read the books (probably because they do come off talky) but I might be inclined to if the tentative series proves interesting.

With J. Nolan handling things, I guess the proposed Roland Emmerich involvement didn't pan out. (Not that I was looking forward to it, given the latest products from Mr. Emmerich).

Hey, Joel_Kirk

HIjol here, and I have enjoyed your thoughtful and spirited posts in other Threads lately. May I firmly suggest that you read at least the first two books in the Foundation Series. It will not take you long. (because, after that, I know you will want to read them all!)
I will be interested in your thoughts and opinions.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There are people here who have a philosophy that they don't want to ####ed over by books.

Either they spoil the movie, or books make the movie look like shit.

In either case, seeing a movie is so expensive, tickets are over twenty dollars, I never seem to be able to recycle my 3d glasses, movie food, parking, god forbid I have a date or that I am taking those ungrateful children who all need a hotdog and an icecream with nuts... so why further guarantee that it will be an unrewarding clusterfuck of disappointment by knowing everything that is going to happen before hand and the incommensurate rage when one one of those things does not happen?

We should only read books that we are certain will never be turned into movies.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

For a television series, here's what I think I'd do...

The first season riffs on "The Encyclopedists" and "The Mayors." Basically, the early years of Terminus, the rise of Salvor Hardin, and the first two Selden crises.

We skip "The Traders" entirely; it's the worst Foundation story by some distance.

The second season tackles "The Merchant Princes" and "The General."

The third season tackles "The Mule" and "Search by the Mule."

The fourth season tackles "Search by the Foundation." And at this point, I'd go off the rails a bit; invent a fourth century FE post-Mule Selden crisis and actually show that psychohistory is back on track. Foundation's Edge shows us the aftermath of one, but let's actually see one.

Fifth season tackles Foundation's Edge. And I think you can stop there.

And, I don't think the television series should limit itself to what's on the page. A lot of Foundation is talky stuff about big things happening elsewhere. A television series is going to have to dramatize a lot of that. "Show, don't tell" and all that rot. Hence, my use of the word "riff." Use Asimov as the starting point, and adapt it to fit the medium.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I actually like what Christopher is saying here. Get the basic idea inside people's heads, and then you can pretty much do anything you want, as long as the core concept is there. It's then a playground of sorts and any number of scenarios could be created to adapt to our changing times. Afterall, change is an occurring theme throughout.

Basically, keep the centrally important characters, borrow some events from the books and go from there. Maybe even add new characters that threaten to derail things.

I've always seen The Mule as some deeply intimidating character who threatens to derail things, while at the same time has a calm to him that betrays his intentions. From what I remember, it was never showed that he was violent. Mentally crazed, maybe, but calculating in his own way. It would be fun to have a character that would be absolutely insane that catches everyone off-guard, including The Mule.

Agreed on stopping at Foundation's Edge, Allyn. What would you think of opening the series with some bits from the prequels to set the stage? Or maybe they could use some of those prequel bits as backstory shown as flashbacks as part of Selden's introduction. I think that either way, it would be a good idea to have an episode focus solely on Selden and his legacy before moving forward.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seldon's dead hand is the star.

Something Asimov forgot when he wrote the prequels.

Although it felt like Heroin when Seldon became Prime Minister.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

What would you think of opening the series with some bits from the prequels to set the stage? Or maybe they could use some of those prequel bits as backstory shown as flashbacks as part of Selden's introduction. I think that either way, it would be a good idea to have an episode focus solely on Selden and his legacy before moving forward.

I'm not opposed to it at all, though I felt the prequel novels demystified Selden maybe a little too much. (To be fair to Asimov, he had written himself into a corner with Earth and didn't know where to go, and without them we wouldn't have had David Brin's Foundation's Triumph, and that's probably my favorite Foundation novel.) I might approach Selden's backstory this way. Do a Foundation-lite episode a season with Selden on Trantor, working its way in the first season with an abbreviated Prelude through Forward in later seasons, and finally with "The Psychohistorians" and Gaal Dornick in the final season.