Any thoughts on JNT? He's been a controversial figure in WHO fandom for many years. The show's longest running producer, he handled WHO during it's most troubled decade, the 80s. He did have a popular Doctor in Peter Davison, but Colin Baker and Sylvestor McCoy didn't quite fare as well fan-wise or ratings wise (Although eventually fan opinion of them would largely change).
John Nathan Turner (Producer 80-89)
- Thread starter Chris227
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From Colin Baker's time on, I couldn't stand the direction JNT was taking Doctor Who. However, in retrospect, I've softened my view, just a bit, upon learning that he actually wanted to get out but the BBC wouldn't let him. You keep someone in a job they don't want to do and it's not going to be pretty!
Mr Awe
Mr Awe
For the most part, I don't mind JNT all that much, certainly not on the level some people hate him. There are some story ideas or directions I didn't like but overall I think he did just fine. I do think (and I say this as a huge fan of the Seventh Doctor and liked Andrew Cartmel's plan) JNT stayed around a bit too long and should've moved on sooner.
I think he presided over the weakest period of Doctor Who. He had a limited grasp of story and scripting, and his casting was suspect. Sometimes his decisions and priorities seemed misplaced. He seemed to be clueless about what made a good director.
However, looking back he was in a fairly thankless position. He BBC hated the show, so he felt he had to stay to keep the show going. The lack of quality in many of the scripts in his time tends to be centred on the years Saward was his script editor. Therefore I think he's at least as culpable as JNT. The stories produced under Bidmead, Root and Cartmel were generally of higher quality. The McCoy years were by no means flawless, but they showed a level of creativity that had been sorely lacking. If instead of the listless Saward there was a suitably enthusiastic script editor who knew the direction he wanted to take the show, I think things might have been better. It's easy to say that with hindsight. Plus that person didn't seem to exist.
However, looking back he was in a fairly thankless position. He BBC hated the show, so he felt he had to stay to keep the show going. The lack of quality in many of the scripts in his time tends to be centred on the years Saward was his script editor. Therefore I think he's at least as culpable as JNT. The stories produced under Bidmead, Root and Cartmel were generally of higher quality. The McCoy years were by no means flawless, but they showed a level of creativity that had been sorely lacking. If instead of the listless Saward there was a suitably enthusiastic script editor who knew the direction he wanted to take the show, I think things might have been better. It's easy to say that with hindsight. Plus that person didn't seem to exist.
There's not much to say that hasn't been said. What I hated the most about JNT's Doctor Who years was that the series became more and more self-referential and obsessed with its own continuity. It's really the worst that could happen to Doctor Who, which in my opinion works much better when it's specifically made to appeal to a wide audience.
Still, thanks to him the series probably lasted much longer than it would have had he not been a producer, and he got some pretty good performances out of Tom Baker in his last season, after he had become increasingly flippant and erratic during Graham Williams' years.
Still, thanks to him the series probably lasted much longer than it would have had he not been a producer, and he got some pretty good performances out of Tom Baker in his last season, after he had become increasingly flippant and erratic during Graham Williams' years.
I'm not a big fan of JNT. While his enthusiasm probably did help keep the show going, with the exception of a handful of episodes, I found Doctor Who in the 80's to be the worst of the classic run.
For the most part, Tomalak has said what I would have. (BTW, love the avatar!)
For the most part, Tomalak has said what I would have. (BTW, love the avatar!)
He stayed too long, pure and simple - he was the right person when he took over, and improved the show at the time, but then he stayed too long and became what he called (in reference to others) "who-ed out", partly because he was told by Jonathan Powell (who wanted to crash the show, unlike Michael Grade, who wanted to fire JNT and replace him with fresh blood) that his choices were a) stay on Dr Who, or b) be unemployed.
Wow! This sounds a lot like what happened during the B&B years of Trek. The shows lasted a lot longer than they would have, if not for Berman, but they became too bogged down in their own continuity.
He seemed to be doing a great job while Peter Davison was the Doctor, after that the series did IMO go downhill. But then he was told by both Janet Fielding and Peter Davsion how to fix the show, by just producing a superior show and not trying to cater the international audience but as long as the ratings were high he wouldn't listen to them.
Yes.Would YOU listen to Janet Fielding?
You guys have pretty much covered it. There was definately something sorely lacking after Davison left. It was as if the pool of good Who writers just suddenly dried up. I've never been sure if that was JNT's fault, or his story editors. Although the fact that he wrote the screenplay for Dimensions in Time may say a lot about his storytelling skills.
And personally I didn't mind the attempts at continuity. The current series manges that just fine.
OTOH he was always a great showman and promoter for the program. I don't know how many conventions I saw him at back in the 80's, but he was always entertaining, and had no problem joining in on some bit of onstage silliness. From entering 'JNT look-alike contests', to singing at fan caberets. From what I'd heard he was partly responsible for many of the Who talent finding their way to the US. So I have to give him props for that.
And personally I didn't mind the attempts at continuity. The current series manges that just fine.
OTOH he was always a great showman and promoter for the program. I don't know how many conventions I saw him at back in the 80's, but he was always entertaining, and had no problem joining in on some bit of onstage silliness. From entering 'JNT look-alike contests', to singing at fan caberets. From what I'd heard he was partly responsible for many of the Who talent finding their way to the US. So I have to give him props for that.
The current series manages it fine, but JNT didn't.
Back then, you could have a whole season - The Trial of a Time Lord - revolving around the concept of the Time Lords' Matrix without ever explaining what it was, and you could open The Two Doctors with five minutes of Patrick Troughton without giving any hint to the audience about who the old guy was.
You were just expected to know all kinds of obscure references, decades-old characters and other minutiae without any explanation. The new series always makes sure that first-time viewers can understand what's going on.
To be fair to the Two Doctors, Troughton had been in The Five Doctors only a couple of years earlier, and his return was very well publicised.
Things like the Pertwee picture in Timelash were just ridiculous. Even the fans were left wondering if they'd missed something.
My understanding was that he didn't want to use any previous writers.
Would YOU listen to Janet Fielding?
always...unless she was telling me to go away of course
I don't think that's true they used old writers more than once on the show while he was in charge.