And let us not forget the ending of Dragonfire which was literally a cliffhanger, but one that The Doctor deliberately placed himself in!
John Nathan Turner and the 80s
- Thread starter Whofan
- Start date
Yeah, there was just some wierd stuff going on with Who during those last years. I was just startign to get into British television at the time (Python, Hitchikers, Blake 7, etc) and I remember wondering what had happened to all the good British tv writers. Except for a few gems like Earthshock, most of season 21, and Remembrance of the Daleks, most of the stories just seemed to be missing a certain spark that made the older series such a pleasure to watch. I've never quite been able to put my finger on why though. I want to say the stories were just overly complex, with plot threads going all over the place and guest characters that just weren't developed properly. Most stories just weren't very engaging.
And yeah, I'm pretty much with The when it comes to 'stunt casting'. As an American who doesn't follow pop culture all that closly anyway, most of the guest stars don't really mean anything to me. Sp far though they've picked personalities who can at least act, so I've never really had a problem with anyone.
And face it, for Rassilon, with so little actual screen time you needed someone with Daltons epic presence to pull it off.
And yeah, I'm pretty much with The when it comes to 'stunt casting'. As an American who doesn't follow pop culture all that closly anyway, most of the guest stars don't really mean anything to me. Sp far though they've picked personalities who can at least act, so I've never really had a problem with anyone.
And face it, for Rassilon, with so little actual screen time you needed someone with Daltons epic presence to pull it off.
I found JNT's era to be my least favourite. It wasn't all his fault, but as the show runner, that's who we hang the overall blame on.
John Nathan-Turner was the Rick Berman of Doctor Who: promoted to the big chair for his talents as a line producer, he was limited by a lack of creativity and he got too comfortable in the job. He should have left earlier than he did and taken his chances; as it was, the show was canceled out from under him and he had to to be shown the door.
That may be a little unfair in terms of scale-JNT would have killed for the kind of resources Berman had-but I think the parallel holds up.
That may be a little unfair in terms of scale-JNT would have killed for the kind of resources Berman had-but I think the parallel holds up.
Last edited:
This thread needs a loud Hawaiian shirt and some dance music, stat!
I think its been well established that JNT wanted to leave sooner, but was told that there was no one else to take the job and tht if he left, the show would be cancelled outright. I suspect he still cared about DW so much that he couldn't bear to see it die.
Well, the other half of that is that he was a BBC employee, and he could only quit being Doctor Who producer by quitting working for the BBC full-stop. But it's hard to blame a man for wanting to avoid unemployment.
"I've been persuaded to stay."
"I've been persuaded to stay."
That's true. I certainly don't begrudge him not wanting to be thought of as the producer who got Doctor Who canceled, but with hindsight, not being thought of as the producer who got Doctor Who canceled was not in the cards.
From what I've read about his later tenure, he couldn't get the Beeb to take his pitches for other series ideas seriously, so I think it's reasonable to argue that he might well have been better off trying his luck with Channel Four or one of the ITV franchises instead, or moving more into theatrical production (which he already had a hand in with the pantomimes he was doing when Who wasn't in production).
Maybe, but I don't even see his approach to the show as workmanlike, like say Terrence Dicks, who'll just crank out the scripts or the novelizations without getting too worked up about it. It just got slipshod as the years went on.
Granted, any producer would have been challenged by the budgets he was given, but at the end of the day he put his name on some pretty questionable material.
Granted, any producer would have been challenged by the budgets he was given, but at the end of the day he put his name on some pretty questionable material.
I wonder if the fact that he wasn't much of a writer/storyteller himself may have hurt his ability in the job? (I think his sole writer credit was Dimensions in Time)
Despite all the criticism though, he still deserves props for keeping the show going through some tough years. Not to mention he was a great pulbicist and overseas ambassador for the show. Its a damn shame hes not still with us today, and just missed seeing the shows return.
Despite all the criticism though, he still deserves props for keeping the show going through some tough years. Not to mention he was a great pulbicist and overseas ambassador for the show. Its a damn shame hes not still with us today, and just missed seeing the shows return.
Last edited:
Both are controversial, but I think both approached WHO in different ways.
JNT wanted to be more flashy, but RTD wanted to be on-par with American shows....(flashy in his own way in regards to effects, acting, etc.)
There are a lot of JNT elements I didn't like (removing lovable K-9, changing the theme...which actually worked for the Davison era, and the question-mark motif for the costumes specifically for the Doctors). On the other hand, there are elements I did like: Peri (
)...certain episodes from the era of the two Baker's, and some episodes from the Davison era, and even the McCoy era.
RTD usually is a little bombastic and melodramatic, but for the most part, he brought life back to the WHO era and brought back many of the people from the previous WHO era...i.e Sarah Jane Smith, the 5th Doctor, era...
JNT wanted to be more flashy, but RTD wanted to be on-par with American shows....(flashy in his own way in regards to effects, acting, etc.)
There are a lot of JNT elements I didn't like (removing lovable K-9, changing the theme...which actually worked for the Davison era, and the question-mark motif for the costumes specifically for the Doctors). On the other hand, there are elements I did like: Peri (
)...certain episodes from the era of the two Baker's, and some episodes from the Davison era, and even the McCoy era. RTD usually is a little bombastic and melodramatic, but for the most part, he brought life back to the WHO era and brought back many of the people from the previous WHO era...i.e Sarah Jane Smith, the 5th Doctor, era...
Compared to Season 24, I'm challenged to think of anything negative to say about the RTD era. Sure, there are some times when I wish the show would have zigged instead of zagged, but at least it always looked like a professional production.
I'm still trying to imagine the sit-down where they decided to swap out the starfield credits for the CGI galaxy. I can see it being a good idea, but it just looks so crudely done. How could you look at that and think it was an upgrade?
I'm still trying to imagine the sit-down where they decided to swap out the starfield credits for the CGI galaxy. I can see it being a good idea, but it just looks so crudely done. How could you look at that and think it was an upgrade?
Keep in mind this was the late 80's, when CG effects were still fairly new. I remember watching Time and the Rani with a big room of Who fans and we were all blown away by the new opening. I remember someone even commenting "Who died and left the BBC rich?"
As for your first point. Yeah, I have a hard time calling any story 'bad' (though The Idiots Lantern comes damn close) after suffering through McCoys first series.
There were a number of bad stories during JNT's era but I thought the good outweighed the bad, certainly compared to Pertwee's era which I've never understood the love for. If I'm asked to pick out the top ten Doctor Who episodes most of them are going to come from JNT's era as they did riskier stuff that the show had never done before. Sometimes it failed but sometimes it worked really well.
No JNT bashing here. Save for Leisure Hive, Toms last (season 18) was probably my all-time favorite series of DW.
The JNT era was my favorite. I liked the stories, the Doctors, and especially the theme tune. 
^ Which one? Starfield #1, "Trial" version, or Doc 7?
Similar threads
