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JMS to write Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy tv series

Not sure I get the objections that JMS might not be "anti corporation" enough to write this. In B5 the mega-corporations played a minor but important role in the Earth Alliance story arc and it wasn't a positive one. IPX was as much to blame for waking the Shadows early as Department Sigma. Edgars Industries tried to engineer a plague that would either wipe-out or enslave all human telepaths to whomever held the patent on the antidote, to say nothing of claiming to be able to puppet the previous administrations and that it's only because Clark went full fascist dictator that he slipped their corporate leash.

Fair points to make -- but there again, it also occurs to me that JMS's "happy ending" for Garibaldi was that he takes over Edgars Industries and becomes its benevolent overlord.

Not to say that his adaptation won't reflect the politics of the Mars trilogy. But I'm curious if it will. There's a big difference between being implicitly anti-corporate and being active socialist, which is ultimately what Robinson's trilogy is. This is a politics that's outside the American mainstream, and JMS's politics on B5 was fairly mainstream liberal. So I'll be interested to see the narrative's politics in his adaptation.
 
The reason I wonder with JMS is that, well, I think he often is polemic. Babylon 5's villains could occasionally be political strawmen, frankly, and JMS loves his speechification. Add to this the very simple fact that a large corporation is of course paying for the whole show. So I do wonder if he's going to write the adaptation from the same anticapitalist, market socialist perspective that the books are written from.

Look at the way religion was handled on B5. But JMS is an atheist. There's no doubt at all that JMS can write convincingly about views that he doesn't hold. Heck, he probably doesn't believe in Narns and Minbari and the rest! ;)

He also believes in being true to the source material. As proof of that, if you're familiar with the source book for World War Z, google up the drafts of his version of the movie which weren't used. At least two of them were available at one time so it shouldn't be hard to find them.

Most of all, I expect he'll be true to the characters and there are plenty of them with different views.

Jan
 
^Yes... I remember JMS once saying about himself that he's a good mimic. When he was the story editor for the syndicated version of the '80s Twilight Zone revival, he tried to write in Rod Serling's voice as closely as he could. (Which I think is fitting, since I consider them very similar writers. They both write/wrote by dictating into a recorder rather than typing, they both tend/ed to write the overwhelming majority of their shows' episodes, and their scripts in the later years of their series eventually ended up sounding like a single person's monologue rather than diverse characters' voices.)
 
^Well, then that's a change from the B5 days, I think. I do remember reading back in the '90s that he dictated.
 
Not sure I get the objections that JMS might not be "anti corporation" enough to write this. In B5 the mega-corporations played a minor but important role in the Earth Alliance story arc and it wasn't a positive one. IPX was as much to blame for waking the Shadows early as Department Sigma. Edgars Industries tried to engineer a plague that would either wipe-out or enslave all human telepaths to whomever held the patent on the antidote, to say nothing of claiming to be able to puppet the previous administrations and that it's only because Clark went full fascist dictator that he slipped their corporate leash.

Fair points to make -- but there again, it also occurs to me that JMS's "happy ending" for Garibaldi was that he takes over Edgars Industries and becomes its benevolent overlord.

It's a happy ending *for Garabaldi*, though it's not about being rich, it's about being happy in himself, finally being with someone who loves him in return, having purpose beyond his day-to-day work, a legacy in the form of his Daughter and of course, *staying sober*. Take away that and still leave him the head of a corporation and suddenly it's not such a happy ending at all. Sure, he'd have tons on money and power, but so what?

It's also worth remembering that JMS himself came from a *very* poor background and now he's the head of his own company. Don't know if he's actually worth enough to be considered a millionaire (none of my damn business anyway) but he knows the value of money because he remembers what it's like not to have any.

I have to say, it's a bit of leap to connect a depiction of someone being the head of a company as being "not liberal enough" or "too pro-corporate". Indeed, the very first thing Garibaldi does as the CEO is lay bare just how corrupt the old board was (to say nothing of the damage the company as a whole had been doing to Mars Colony) and kick them all out the door.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement of the executive lifestyle.

Not to say that his adaptation won't reflect the politics of the Mars trilogy. But I'm curious if it will. There's a big difference between being implicitly anti-corporate and being active socialist, which is ultimately what Robinson's trilogy is. This is a politics that's outside the American mainstream, and JMS's politics on B5 was fairly mainstream liberal. So I'll be interested to see the narrative's politics in his adaptation.

It's all relative. You do realise that from this side of the pond, whenever we hear American's talk about socialism, and left wing politics, that to us what you're actually talking about is leaning *slightly* to the left with one flailing hand all the while both feet planted very firmly so far right it's a wonder the actual right wingers don't get shoved off the edge. The amount of fuss people over there kicked up over a something that's *barely* a national health service was hilarious and more than a little disturbing.

Anyway, JMS doesn't have to be anti-this or pro-that in order to portray multiple viewpoints, whether he personally leans that way or not. There's a big difference between writing about social issues in general and deliberately pushing a specific agenda. Also remember that depiction does not equate to endorsement.
 
^Well, then that's a change from the B5 days, I think. I do remember reading back in the '90s that he dictated.

That post was made in 1993. And this one from 1996. The only reason I remember is because many people suggested that he get Dragon software as an aid when his Carpal Tunnel got bad. I wonder if those suggestions are what you remember.

That wasn't the point you were making, though, I know. I think you're right that JMS' capacity for writing with other's styles will definitely serve him in good stead. And while I've only read the first book in the trilogy so far, there's plenty of expounding of viewpoints so he'll be able to write his trademark swathes of dialogue! ;)

Jan
 
My only concern about this, and it also applies to the recent announcement from the BBC about Phillip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy is that they adapt all three books in the series and maybe even the short stories I believe KSR wrote as a companion piece. I'm old enough to remember the BBC only adapting two of John Christopher's (then) three Tripods novels back in the 80s. By the way do you think the success of 'The Martian' had a role to play in this decision?
 
^Well, then that's a change from the B5 days, I think. I do remember reading back in the '90s that he dictated.

That post was made in 1993. And this one from 1996. The only reason I remember is because many people suggested that he get Dragon software as an aid when his Carpal Tunnel got bad. I wonder if those suggestions are what you remember.

On reflection, I think you may be right about that. Maybe I was thinking that it would be fitting if he were to adopt Serling's approach, given how much he clearly admired the man.


By the way do you think the success of 'The Martian' had a role to play in this decision?

Well, this thread was started back in January, so the project was in development before The Martian came out. Although the series order might have been influenced by the film's success.
 
It's also worth remembering that JMS himself came from a *very* poor background and now he's the head of his own company. Don't know if he's actually worth enough to be considered a millionaire

JMS has been the showrunner for a number of television series; those kinds of jobs tend to pay ridiculously well. For instance, Joss Whedon had development deals in the small mutli-millions back during the days of Buffy and Angel. Granted that his shows were never as big as Whedon's (and that Whedon's shows themselves were never huge), but my suspicion is that if JMS is not a millionaire, it is by virtue of him not having parlayed his salaries into investment and other opportunities; I suspect most people in his position would have a relatively easier time becoming multimillionaires if they aren't there already.

(none of my damn business anyway) but he knows the value of money because he remembers what it's like not to have any.

Which also doesn't mean he believes in the economic system Robinson endorses in the Mars trilogy.

I have to say, it's a bit of leap to connect a depiction of someone being the head of a company as being "not liberal enough" or "too pro-corporate". Indeed, the very first thing Garibaldi does as the CEO is lay bare just how corrupt the old board was (to say nothing of the damage the company as a whole had been doing to Mars Colony) and kick them all out the door.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement of the executive lifestyle.

No, but it is still a depiction of the same basic economic system as enabling a happy ending; JMS depicts Edgars Industries as being corrupt until Garibaldi "cleans it up," but he does not depict the entire economic system of which Edgars Industries is only a small part as being corrupt. It's the difference between condemning a brick and condemning a house.

There's no particular sense that there's something unjust about the very idea of a corporation or of the existence of financial elites. This seems to reflect a mainstream American liberal idea, that you can have a moral capitalism if you have good regulation.

Mind you, I'm not coming to firm conclusions that JMS won't construct a narrative that endorses Robinson's socialism. But he has a history of writing from a mainstream liberal point of view, and no particular history of Robinson's brand of radicalism.

Not to say that his adaptation won't reflect the politics of the Mars trilogy. But I'm curious if it will. There's a big difference between being implicitly anti-corporate and being active socialist, which is ultimately what Robinson's trilogy is. This is a politics that's outside the American mainstream, and JMS's politics on B5 was fairly mainstream liberal. So I'll be interested to see the narrative's politics in his adaptation.

It's all relative. You do realise that from this side of the pond, whenever we hear American's talk about socialism, and left wing politics, that to us what you're actually talking about is leaning *slightly* to the left with one flailing hand all the while both feet planted very firmly so far right it's a wonder the actual right wingers don't get shoved off the edge.

Yes, American socialists like myself are keenly aware that the term is often used to describe capitalistic policies that are merely on the more liberal side of capitalism. But Robinson's depiction of Martian socialism is genuinely socialistic, and not really a part of the American liberal tradition.

Anyway, JMS doesn't have to be anti-this or pro-that in order to portray multiple viewpoints, whether he personally leans that way or not. There's a big difference between writing about social issues in general and deliberately pushing a specific agenda. Also remember that depiction does not equate to endorsement.

Sure. But the Mars trilogy does have a point of view as a narrative on these issues, so I'm curious to see if JMS brings that point of view to the screen or changes it.

The reason I wonder with JMS is that, well, I think he often is polemic. Babylon 5's villains could occasionally be political strawmen, frankly, and JMS loves his speechification. Add to this the very simple fact that a large corporation is of course paying for the whole show. So I do wonder if he's going to write the adaptation from the same anticapitalist, market socialist perspective that the books are written from.

Look at the way religion was handled on B5. But JMS is an atheist. There's no doubt at all that JMS can write convincingly about views that he doesn't hold. Heck, he probably doesn't believe in Narns and Minbari and the rest! ;)

I think this is the strongest argument I've seen for JMS being able to convincingly write a socialist narrative. For all that JMS is an atheist, a lot of B5 does seem to have a very religious feel to it, and the episodes written specifically about religion often seemed to have a narrative endorsing religious ideas -- "Passing Through Gethsemane" comes to mind.

My only concern about this, and it also applies to the recent announcement from the BBC about Phillip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy is that they adapt all three books in the series and maybe even the short stories I believe KSR wrote as a companion piece. I'm old enough to remember the BBC only adapting two of John Christopher's (then) three Tripods novels back in the 80s. By the way do you think the success of 'The Martian' had a role to play in this decision?

It's my understanding from the Variety article that Season One, consisting of ten episodes, will be an adaptation of Red Mars. So they seem to be following the Game of Thrones/True Blood model, where a season's worth of episodes collectively adapt a single novel.

If that's the case, then Season One would have at least as much closure as Red Mars itself has, and then Season Two would have at least as much closure as Green Mars has. Each season would tell a complete story -- so even if it's not renewed, there'd be some closure.

And I think the success of The Martian almost certainly helped convince Spike to greenlight the show.

I'm honestly more surprised Spike TV seems to be aiming for the highbrow market, though. They've been pretty firmly entrenched in the lowbrow/middlebrow market for a good long while, but now it looks like they want to do Game of Thrones-style genre prestige television. Definitely a new direction for them.
 
It's my understanding from the Variety article that Season One, consisting of ten episodes, will be an adaptation of Red Mars. So they seem to be following the Game of Thrones/True Blood model, where a season's worth of episodes collectively adapt a single novel.

If that's the case, then Season One would have at least as much closure as Red Mars itself has, and then Season Two would have at least as much closure as Green Mars has. Each season would tell a complete story -- so even if it's not renewed, there'd be some closure.

JMS said this on Twitter the other day:

JMichael Straczynski said:
‏@straczynski Dec 8
@trekonomics It's an ongoing series, so S1 is set in the first book.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to try to do the entire first book in one season.

And this in an interview back in June:

N: Can you say anything about the adaptation of Kim Stanley Robinson’s Red Mars series that you’re working on for Spike? How faithful will it be to the original books?

JMS: It’s a huge story that covers well over a hundred years, and television right now is kind of the place to go for sagas. In terms of the adaptation itself, we’re trying to stay pretty faithful. There are a couple of characters being added. We’re looking at how to do more of a non-linear structure to the story, because there’s such a long period of time that’s covered it makes sense to be able to see in one episode how they got together and then the trip to Mars, and also be able to see Underhill and so on. Patching all that together requires a lot of detail work. It’s very much a game of pieces. The script went in about two weeks ago. They’re very excited. They’re going to fast track this thing if at all possible. I’m getting my first batch of notes from them next week. They’re very excited about it. I think that Kim will feel that the series will do a proper job of adapting his book.

Jan
 
There is no way in hell that the entire first novel could be adapted in a mere ten episodes. That sucker is 572 pages long in paperback and spans 35 years. And it's the shortest of the three. The second novel picks up 20 years later and spans 46 years, and the third covers the next hundred years after that. A book per season? Not a chance. Not unless they radically change the chronology of events and leave out the vast majority of the books' content.
 
IIRC, didn't the first book start out with a cold opening of an already established domed colony, right before an a terrorist attack, before flashing back to the original colony flight
So it seems to me the non-linear storytelling is at least somewhat already part of the books.

But yeah, no way they can do one book per season. They could probably do one book in two seasons, but from what JMS said it sounds like they're going to break it all down and reassemble it so the events *all* the books are spread clean across the whole length of the show. If that's so then all bets are off as to where the natural end points for each season may occur.
 
IIRC, didn't the first book start out with a cold opening of an already established domed colony, right before an a terrorist attack, before flashing back to the original colony flight
So it seems to me the non-linear storytelling is at least somewhat already part of the books.

But yeah, no way they can do one book per season. They could probably do one book in two seasons, but from what JMS said it sounds like they're going to break it all down and reassemble it so the events *all* the books are spread clean across the whole length of the show. If that's so then all bets are off as to where the natural end points for each season may occur.

If they do break up Red Mars between Seasons One and Two, the most obvious break point

would be the night of John's murder and the riots in Nicosia. You could start S1 with a flashforward to the murder a la the prologue to the book, then spend the season building up to that night. Then have Season Two be about the fallout from John's death and the rise of the metanats, with the first revolution breaking out and failing in the final few episodes.
 
^The point is, they couldn't even scratch the surface in a mere ten episodes. Doing the entire 200-year span of the trilogy in just thirty episodes is completely untenable. That'd be about as comprehensive as a movie trailer. Why even bother if it's going to be that rushed and superficial?

No, more likely it will take several seasons to cover the equivalent of Red Mars, and even that will be a compressed and heavily altered version. Or they won't even bother to stay close to the books' structure and will just construct their own independent narrative around its characters and ideas, like other book-adaptation series such as The Dresden Files, The Dead Zone, or The 100.
 
It's important to remember that there's no way it can be a straight adaptation since books tend to illustrate what's going on internally with characters. When JMS did the adaptation of WWZ, he created the character of the interviewer but still stayed true to the core of the book with some scenes almost verbatim. I'll have to read the book again but I think that after you cut out the swathes of description and much of the hard-science exposition, the first book (all I've read so far) could probably be done in 2 or 2.5 seasons.
 
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