JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

[BDJ]

If I may,

I had great hope upon hearing that JMS was "re-imagining" Superman and Wonder Woman. I bought into the hype and I am not a fan of B5.
I was interested in the "walkabout" Superman and the WW changes.
Alas, I was let down in a very big way.
Superman Earth One had some interesting images and the younger Clark\Superman was kinda cool, BUT it felt a bit ... I don't know... clunky - for lack of a better term.
The villain was forgettable even though the new origin about the destruction of Krypton was kind of "okay".
After I read it I just felt kinda ... "meh". I wish I had my money back.
So maybe now someone could get their head outta their hiney and make Superman the awe inspiring leader and hero he can be. (not to mention doing the same for Wondy too!)
Of course there are so many cynical, hard core, badass wannabe readers out there. They wouldn't give Supes a chance unless he grew claws and slaughtered bad guys with them and used his head vision to cook them up and then devoured said bad guys! (with some fava beans and et.al.)
He'd hafta be covered in tats and listen to death core metal, y'know the sane and mature stuff!
Bye Bye JMS! Hopefully never to return! (jus' sayin')

 

[Admiral Shran]

Good!

While I was moderately entertained by B5, I found his Wonder Woman stuff very off-puting.

I haven't read any of his Superman stuff though.

 

[Reverend]

I'll agree that the villain Tyrell was pretty boring and did nothing to me, we saw too little though of Lois and Jimmy for them to really make an impression. I hope we get Lex in the next one.

From what JMS has been posting on facebook, no, Lex won't show up in volume 2 but he does have a long term plan for how he will be introduced.

Tyrell and his race was I think the only thing about the GN that really bothered me. Not so concerned about the character himself since his only purpose was to help set-up the planetary assassination plot, but the idea that Krypton had a sister planet inhabited by their mortal enemies felt like slightly too much of a departure to me.

I mean if they were actually some break-away Kryptonian colony then I'd be OK with it, but a different race? I don't know. It doesn't sit right.

as well as me hearing about it from Larry DiTillio. So I got my info from first-hand witnesses.

Larry DiTillio's B5 contract was not renewed after the end of season 2. He wasn't involved in the later years at all.

Indeed. Without any proof I'm calling bullshit on this. Claiming JMS basically slapped his name on other peoples' screenplays from what amounts to 90 odd episodes of television is a very serious and implausible accusation. Especially since this latest development has him taking a 75% pay cut.


As for those not liking his new storylines; you did read the part where those stories will be finished as he intended? The only thing he's not going to be doing is writing the actual scripts. The stories will still be his.
Mind you, in all honesty I think I'd rather have it that ways as, being a B5 fan I think I'm a little too familiar with his writing "voice" and certain familiar phrases, turns of speech and motifs rather jump out at me when I read is non-B5 work. For example, it felt a little odd hearing Angelina Jolie quoting John Sheridan.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm thinking Lex will be introduced somehow through the military storyline. Clark's job search while boring was meant to show that he attempted to do other options and to show he's smart, thus the equation that he came up with.

 

[the Dagman]

as well as me hearing about it from Larry DiTillio. So I got my info from first-hand witnesses.

Larry DiTillio's B5 contract was not renewed after the end of season 2. He wasn't involved in the later years at all.

Indeed. Without any proof I'm calling bullshit on this. Claiming JMS basically slapped his name on other peoples' screenplays from what amounts to 90 odd episodes of television is a very serious and implausible accusation.

Whatever. If you people don't believe me, it is no skin off my nose. I am just an anonymous person on the internet to you. Nevermind the fact that I know Larry, I know he worked on the later seasons, and he was the "in" my friend Zoran used to visit the set in season 4. I guess all those pictures he brought back from the set with him, his wife he was on honeymoon with, and series stars like Andreas Katsulas in full make-up and Jerry Doyle were all fakes too. After all, I haven't seen the pictures in over ten years since my friend who has them moved to Utah. So I must be either deluded or lying, right? I mean, you guys have all that info that has been posted on the internet that supports your version. Just ignore the guy who actually got first hand accounts and knows the guy who would know for sure.

 

[Admiral_Young]

This isn't a B5 thread guys. Let's not have a pissing match here.

 

[Sci]

The WGA would never allow an executive producer to take someone's work, slap his name on it, and deny that person a co-writer credit; that would open up the studio and/or production company to all sorts of lawsuits and it would be a breach of WGA contract. And no staff writer would go along with it, because they'd never get any residuals if their names never appeared in the writing credits.

So I must be either deluded or lying, right?

Yes.

 

[Admiral_Young]

How does a friend of yours bringing pictures back from a set of actors prove that Larry D worked on more episodes than he's credited for? I don't get that part.

 

[the Dagman]

^How could Larry have provided access to the closed set in season 4 if he wasn't on the show after season 1?

ETA: BTW, Larry was in the pictures too. There were shots of him and several staff writers as well. Ironically though, JMS was not on the set that day. There were no shots of him.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Okay what exactly are people arguing about here? Are we arguing about the number of episodes that Larry D is credited to have written or him working on the show?

 

[the Dagman]

I am merely stating that the new writers on Wonder Woman and Superman working from story notes was very much like the writing environment JMS had on B5. He does the big broad strokes, others do the minutiae.

Others on this thread feel the need to disprove what I know to be true. And they tried saying that Larry left the show after Season 1 to back up their assumptions. Wherever they got their facts from, it certainly wasn't directly from the source as I have. But I just sent an e-mail to my friend that now lives in Utah and asked that he scan and post his pictures from his trip. He is an elementary school teacher and has a long-time aversion to computers and even video games (since he always sucked at them), so I have no idea when he will read it and respond. He may not even have a scanner though, as the subject has never popped up in our conversations. He always seems to keep very busy and doesn't waste his time on the internet like I do. And, unfortunately, I lost touch with Larry shortly after B5 ended and don't have his current contact information. But my friend Zoran still may have it. I will have to ask him when I hear from him.

 

[Reverend]

Larry DiTillio visiting the set when he's not on the payroll anymore is hardly what I'd call proof of JMS committing acts of theft and plagiarism. All it proves is the man was still on friendly terms with the company and was able to visit. Not having JMS appear in any set photos isn't proof of this either, it just proves that he wasn't standing in front of that particular camera when those photos were taken.

A FAR more likely explanation for his absence on set is that he was up in his office...writing.

 

[Tulin]

I think it was a mistake giving him two of the flagship books. He should have just stuck with "Superman" since he's so passionate about Supes, and he is.

Typical JMS - he seems to enjoy piling on the work and overloading himself!

 

[Tulin]

^How could Larry have provided access to the closed set in season 4 if he wasn't on the show after season 1?

ETA: BTW, Larry was in the pictures too. There were shots of him and several staff writers as well. Ironically though, JMS was not on the set that day. There were no shots of him.

Does that mean JMS did not work on the later seasons, too?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[the Dagman]

^Once again for those too slow to grasp what I am saying here. Larry WAS on the payroll, which is how he got my friend onto the set. The source of wherever the info said he wasn't is in error. And I NEVER said that JMS committed any "acts of theft or plagiarism". That is all on you guys. What I said is that JMS did write the broad strokes, which were all the major story beats, which is why he got the writers' credit. But he had a whole staff of writers who worked on the scripts to flesh out the ideas he didn't. Which is a very common practice in television and film. There are often writers who go uncredited. It is nothing new. So stop trying to put words in my mouth and reading things that aren't there. And if you don't believe me, fine. Just drop it and get back on topic. Jeez, is this really THAT big of a deal for you JMS fanboys?

 

[Landed]

Others on this thread feel the need to disprove what I think to be true.

Fixed that for you.

 

[iguana_tonante]

But I just sent an e-mail to my friend that now lives in Utah and asked that he scan and post his pictures from his trip. He is an elementary school teacher and has a long-time aversion to computers and even video games (since he always sucked at them), so I have no idea when he will read it and respond. He may not even have a scanner though, as the subject has never popped up in our conversations. He always seems to keep very busy and doesn't waste his time on the internet like I do. And, unfortunately, I lost touch with Larry shortly after B5 ended and don't have his current contact information. But my friend Zoran still may have it. I will have to ask him when I hear from him.

This is so very important, to the point of justifying a flounce. Jeez.

 

[Lindley]

To be fair, there were rumors that Larry DeTillio was supposed to have written a Crusade script (didn't happen since the series was aborted), so he was obviously still on good terms with the team.

However, he was not under contract following season 2. While unfortunately I cannot find the posting this is replying to in order to put it in context, here's what JMS said presumably about his departure:

1 Jun 1995 There's really not much *to* tell. Because I wrote 15 out of 22 this
season, and I held virtually all of the writers meetings, and personally
created and handed out the stories to freelancers, there wasn't a lot for
him to *do*; he spent a lot of time when he wasn't doing his scripts
more or less sitting on his hands. Larry's a world-builder, coming from
a gaming background, and this world was already built. There wasn't that
much for him to do, and his skills were being wasted. He'd never have a
chance to shine and come out from under the jms shadow to be recognized
for what he can do. (Very often, stuff in his scripts would get credited
to me, often incorrectly.) This situation would only get worse in later
seasons, with more and more arc stories, pre-determined, coming into the
foreground. So it was really for the best.

jms

 

[shivkala]

Anyway, after the whole New Krypton storyline, I was hoping to get back to what made Superman so great for me. I decided that the "Grounded" storyline was not for me, but I have been impressed by Paul Cornell's work on Action Comics.

That being said, I wish JMS the best.

 

[Sci]

^Once again for those too slow to grasp what I am saying here. Larry WAS on the payroll, which is how he got my friend onto the set. The source of wherever the info said he wasn't is in error. And I NEVER said that JMS committed any "acts of theft or plagiarism".

Saying that other people wrote Babylon 5's teleplays based upon story notes from JMS but that those staffers were denied a "Teleplay by" credit is the same thing as accusing JMS of plagiarism.

In real life, the situation you describe would warrant JMS getting a "Story by" credit and the staff writer in question getting a "Teleplay by" credit.

That is all on you guys. What I said is that JMS did write the broad strokes, which were all the major story beats, which is why he got the writers' credit. But he had a whole staff of writers who worked on the scripts to flesh out the ideas he didn't. Which is a very common practice in television and film. There are often writers who go uncredited.

Actually, it's far more common for the executive producer/head writer to do an uncredited re-write on a staffer's or freelancer's script and voluntarily forgo a "Written by" or "Teleplay by" credit, so as to allow the full residual to go to the staffer or freelancer. Many executive producers do this since they get a large residual just from being the executive producer anyways.