JJ (messed) STAR TREK UP AND WILL (mess) UP STAR WARS TOO

[martok2112]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

I thought the complaint was JJ messed up Star Trek by making it look too much like Star Wars. So, what's he done here?

He made Star Wars look too much like Star Trek...

This reminds me of an interview I heard with Robert Plant years ago (back in the late 80's). The whole thing about Whitesnake trying to sound too much like Led Zeppelin.

When asked what he was going to do about it, Robert Plant said, "Well, I guess my next project will try to sound a little more like Whitesnake." And he punctuated that with a good hearted laugh, and then added: "David (Coverdale), you guys keep doing what you're doing! You're doing great!" (Or words to that effect.)

You don't see the same kind of series-saving praise given to Abrams' involvement in ST.

I actually see quite a few people that have praised Abrams for saving the franchise.

Ssshhh! Don't confuse the issue with facts!

Indeed. Some people might get the right idea. Can't have that now.

 

[MacLeod]

Abram's really just repackaged it more suit current tastes. Just as someone might do the same in another 20 years. I've enjoyed the two films he has done though I preferred ST0 to STID. I've also enjoyed the other films and TV shows as they fufiled their primary objective to entertain me. And besides at the end of the day I'm not getting any younger.

And besides if you don't like this, the simple solution is not to watch and pretend it never happened.

 

[Greg Cox]

The notion that "fans make the best films" is regularly contradicted by actual fan films.

The last thing Trek needs is to be run by fans.

Pretty much makes useless and pointless all criticisms and posts on these forums.

Umm. Not the same thing. Reviewing something, or just gabbing about it afterwards, is not the same thing as producing it. And surely you don't think we're actually "running" STAR TREK here?

Lord knows I don't post here because I think that the Powers that Be are hanging on our every word and waiting for us to tell them what we want. The way I see it, we're just socializing, that's all. It's the electronic equivalent of hanging out at the bar at a convention, shooting the breeze about our favorite movies and comic books and hobbies. It's a fun way to spend time with our fellow fans, which is good enough for me.

But, more to the point, what was specifically being addressed was the silly, strangely persistent notion that only a lifelong fan can truly make a good STAR TREK movie or TV series. And we're not just talking about Abrams here. I remember folks giving Bannon Braga the same kind of grief because he had the nerve to admit that wasn't always a huge TOS fan.

Robert Wise was not a Trekkie. Nicholas Meyer was not a Trekkie. Harve Bennett was not a Trekkie. J.J. Abrams was not a Trekkie. Hell, none of the writers and directors on TOS grew up on STAR TREK.

And yet people keep talking like that matters.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The last thing Trek needs is to be run by fans.

Pretty much makes useless and pointless all criticisms and posts on these forums.

Umm. Not the same thing. Reviewing something, or just gabbing about it afterwards, is not the same thing as producing it. And surely you don't think we're actually "running" STAR TREK here?

Lord knows I don't post here because I think that the Powers that Be are hanging on our every word and waiting for us to tell them what we want. The way I see it, we're just socializing, that's all. It's the electronic equivalent of hanging out at the bar at a convention, shooting the breeze about our favorite movies and comic books and hobbies. It's a fun way to spend time with our fellow fans, which is good enough for me.

But, more to the point, Leatherface was addressing the silly, strangely persistent notion that only a lifelong fan can truly make a good STAR TREK movie or TV series. And we're not just talking about Abrams here. I remember folks giving Bannon Braga grief because he had the nerve to admit that wasn't always a huge TOS fan.

Robert Wise was not a Trekkie. Nicholas Meyer was not a Trekkie. Harve Bennett was not a Trekkie. J.J. Abrams was not a Trekkie. Hell, none of the writers and directors on TOS grew up on STAR TREK.

And yet people keep talking like that matters.

Does anyone else see the subtle irony in this exchange?

 

[BillJ]

Abram's really just repackaged it more suit current tastes. Just as someone might do the same in another 20 years. I've enjoyed the two films he has done though I preferred ST0 to STID. I've also enjoyed the other films and TV shows as they fufiled their primary objective to entertain me. And besides at the end of the day I'm not getting any younger.

And besides if you don't like this, the simple solution is not to watch and pretend it never happened.

That is almost logical!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

You need to learn the difference between attacking the post and attacking the poster. One is flaming, the other is not.

^ Not even close to what's happening in this thread, but considering your own history, spinning evidence of flaming comes as no surprise.

Do you have an actual opinion about the premise of the thread, which is that lens flares have ruined The Force Awakens before it even premieres? Otherwise what is it you are doing here besides trying to shout down everyone else? You don't control the thread, stop pretending that you do.

So, you attack a member for pointing out the attacks on the member who launched this thread. You must realize that it only sells the case that you and your ilk are trashing the rules of this board in order to abuse members who do not worship Abrams.

It's not my job, or yours for that matter, to police this thread. We have moderators for that. And where exactly did I defend anyone? I was simply replying to your statement that we should stay out of the thread. It's a discussion forum, not an "agree with the OP or don't post" forum.

If you disagree with the OP's premise, why go after the member or his thoughts when it is clear attacking him not erase an opinion that is not isolated to one thread on one message board? That is astoundingly counterproductive.

Are Abrams fans so insecure that they must attack members who criticize him?

 

[fireproof78]

Which means absolutely zero. Nick Meyer wasn't a Star Trek fan and Stuart Baird/John Logan were. Guess who made the better movie?

Heck, Nicholas Meyer directed and/or scripted three of the best STAR TREK movies, despite not being a lifelong fan.

Buy Meyer was so on-target in understanding what ST required. That is almost as important as going into a production as a fan. He brought out the best of what the actors and general feel of ST had established in TOS and made it work--beautifully--on the big screen. But that took understanding. You don't see the same kind of series-saving praise given to Abrams' involvement in ST.

Perhaps in not so much words, but I have heard several people compare Meyer and Abrams in terms of their impact upon ST and its future. The idea that one somehow trumps the other is oversimplifying it, in my opinion. There are plenty of opinions on TWOK that treat it as "not Star Trek" even they are not in the popular opinion.

I would say that Abrams tried to thread the balance of the action/adventure attitude of the 60s with a more contemporary storytelling style.

It worked for some, did not work for others, but it demonstrated that there was a different way of doing things that could still make money from Star Trek beyond merchandising and gaming.

As for lens flares, for me, they can't "ruin" anything. If the story is good, the characterization is good and I'm entertained, then I think Abrams (and other production teams) have done their job.

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

^ Not even close to what's happening in this thread, but considering your own history, spinning evidence of flaming comes as no surprise.

I'm sorry, when someone posts something as dumb as what the OP did, they pretty much deserve to be called out on it.

Abrams did not invent lens flares (funny enough, the first movie I clearly remember having lens flares was... Star Trek: The Motion Picture) nor is he worse than Hitler for using them. Which is how people around here that dislike his films act.

If lens flares alone (from a single still image) are enough to ruin a film for someone, they were never honestly interested in giving that film a chance to begin with.

This is Sparta!!!, er... the Internet. When one puts something out here, they should be ready for every and all kinds of responses, not just ones that agree with their point of view.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The last thing Trek needs is to be run by fans.

Just look at all the ideas floating around by fans that are either fanwanky as hell, or boring as shit.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

This is far beyond disagreeing, but pages of personal attacks, and the rules do not support that, or offensive photos.

Okay, I have to ask: what "offensive," "disgusting" photos are we talking about here?

The hemorrhoid joke? Please. We're all grown-ups here. I think our delicate sensibilities can handle a little scatological humor--and (gasp!) a picture of a mock tube of lotion without coming down with the vapors.

It's not like we're talking mugato-on-Horta porn or something.

 

[Amaris]

Fans who want to write scripts are usually very devoted to the franchise they love, which would be alright if it weren't for the fact that many of them are slavishly devoted to canon on every level. It's not enough that events happen, they have to be justified through previous canon. Why does the ship travel at warp 9.9? Because it can't achieve warp 10. What about the episodes that surpassed warp 10? Oh, well we'll just explain that away with some technobabble. Oh, good, so now we're wasting story time by explaining events that have no bearing whatsoever on the current storyline, because every aspect of canon has to be covered and explainable.

See, in such cases, fan writers aren't making a movie, they're selling their Gospel, and those accounts have to be factual in every way, even though they're fiction. It bogs down stories, turns movies into drudgery, and everyone outside the hardcore devoted caste of superfans are turned away, which is fine for many of the superfans, as they don't care what "casuals" want. This story is for them, the "true" fans, and no one else.

Nemesis was a shit movie, and it was a shit movie because it was written by a fan who was hell-bent on continuity that didn't matter. It was all about justifying the reasons why anyone did anything, and attaching a very heavy canon anchor to it. Then things had to proceed as they would according to canon. It was so predictable, I could have fallen asleep 10 minutes in, and woke up 10 minutes until closing credits, and I wouldn't have missed anything. I swear, there are fans out there who would love to watch a Trek film that consists of nothing but technobabble, badass one-liners, and Dominion war battle cut-scenes. This is the affliction of the fan writer who only wants to write "true" Star Trek.

 

[BillJ]

I swear, there are fans out there who would love to watch a Trek film that consists of nothing but technobabble, badass one-liners, and Dominion war battle cut-scenes. This is the affliction of the fan writer who only wants to write "true" Star Trek.

You made me nauseous reading this.

 

[sojourner]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

^ Not even close to what's happening in this thread, but considering your own history, spinning evidence of flaming comes as no surprise.

See that bolded part? that's attacking the poster, not the post.

 

[martok2112]

I like heavy action, starship blasting things blowed up good Star Trek. Nemesis is my favorite TNG era film because it feels like a big screen movie instead of a septic episode. But, it is also full of flaws...enough to fill a space cruiser.

My favorite aspect of Nemesis: The space battle felt like a space battle... as much action footage as there was internal reaction shots. Not two minutes of reaction dialogue and one or two brief action shots. But yes, the film is a result of what happens when a fanboy writes the story.

I also like the less action intensive episodes. Nice to take a breather from heavy action.

 

[Mudd]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

This is far beyond disagreeing, but pages of personal attacks, and the rules do not support that, or offensive photos.

Okay, I have to ask: what "offensive," "disgusting" photos are we talking about here?

The hemorrhoid joke? Please. We're all grown-ups here. I think our delicate sensibilities can handle a little scatological humor--and (gasp!) a picture of a mock tube of lotion without coming down with the vapors.

It's not like we're talking mugato-on-Horta porn or something.

The photo was only offensive to those whose oxen were being gored.

 

[Trekkin]

Back in 09, I didn't even notice the lens flares until I listened the the DVD commentary and JJ started talking about them. If the Internet hadn't rabbited on about them for nearly three years straight, I probably wouldn't have noticed them on my first watch of STID either. It's not that I think they're subtle, but for me they're just part of the aesthetic - not great or horrible enough to register.


I mean, is Star Wars ruined because every damn scene transition is a wipe? Did anyone even care about that the first time they saw it?

 

[JWPlatt]

The notion that "fans make the best films" is regularly contradicted by actual fan films.

The last thing Trek needs is to be run by fans.

Pretty much makes useless and pointless all criticisms and posts on these forums.

Umm. Not the same thing. Reviewing something, or just gabbing about it afterwards, is not the same thing as producing it. And surely you don't think we're actually "running" STAR TREK here?

Lord knows I don't post here because I think that the Powers that Be are hanging on our every word and waiting for us to tell them what we want. The way I see it, we're just socializing, that's all. It's the electronic equivalent of hanging out at the bar at a convention, shooting the breeze about our favorite movies and comic books and hobbies. It's a fun way to spend time with our fellow fans, which is good enough for me.

But, more to the point, what was specifically being addressed was the silly, strangely persistent notion that only a lifelong fan can truly make a good STAR TREK movie or TV series. And we're not just talking about Abrams here. I remember folks giving Bannon Braga the same kind of grief because he had the nerve to admit that wasn't always a huge TOS fan.

Robert Wise was not a Trekkie. Nicholas Meyer was not a Trekkie. Harve Bennett was not a Trekkie. J.J. Abrams was not a Trekkie. Hell, none of the writers and directors on TOS grew up on STAR TREK.

And yet people keep talking like that matters.

My comment was a sarcastic and admittedly obtuse jab at defenders who tell me I have to make my own movies before I can criticize other movies, all the while unaware that if only moviemakers can be critics, the defenders exclude their own arguments in support.

 

[sojourner]

Maybe you should start using smileys. The disclaimer in your sig is clearly not working.

 

[Maurice]

Maybe you should start using smileys. The disclaimer in your sig is clearly not working.

And many people on here disable displaying the sigs ergo never see them.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: JJ FUCKED STAR TREK UP AND WILL FUCK UP STAR WARS TOO

It's not like we're talking mugato-on-Horta porn or something.

Go on....