JFK 45 years later

[the 4th hanson bro]

45 years ago Sunday, 11/23/63, President John F Kennedy was shot and killed while riding through Dealey Plaza in Dallas.

Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested and charged with killing the president. Dallas bar owner Jack Ruby shot and killed Oswald before he could go to trial.

Conspiracy theories abound, especially around the presumed locations of additional shooters - "the grassy knoll" is a prime example.

The Discovery Channel recently showed their examination into the assassination using new techniques and materials and pretty much debunked the additional shooter theories.

They had replica heads built by an Australian company that mimic human heads and fired shots into them from the distances and angles of the alleged extra riflemen. From the "grassy knoll" and "railroad track" locations, using the same type of rifle and ammunition, the simulated heads were blown apart.

They also used blood spatter analysis of frames from the Zapruder film and from filming the shot from the height, angle, and distance into a simulated head and the patterns on film matched, the debris and splatter patterns in the simulated limo matched documentation of the event.

While there will always be questions about the event, it looks pretty clear that a single gunman fired the shot that killed Kennedy and that shot was fired from the 6th floor of the Book Depository building.

Will this new evidence convince anybody or are the conspiracy theorists so entwined with their theories that they can't see any new evidence?

 

[DanCPA]

Will this new evidence convince anybody or are the conspiracy theorists so entwined with their theories that they can't see any new evidence?

I don't think anything will ever convince the theorists that there was a single shooter if for no other reason than it would mean trusting the government, and I don't think anyone trusts the US Government anymore

 

[Cicero]

^ Actually, the 1979 report on the assassination by the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that there were probably two shooters, and that President Kennedy's assassination was probably the result of a conspiracy. Their findings:

1. Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
2. Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
3. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
4. Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. The conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive.

The committee also concluded it was probable that the second shooter fired from the "grassy knoll," and fired the third of four total shots fired (which missed), and that the single bullet theory was correct. These findings place the Committee in agreement with the suspicions of President Johnson and Attorney General Kennedy, who both believed that a cabal of conspirators were responsible for JFK's death.

(This approaches the total of my knowledge of the Kennedy assassination.)

 

[Dayton3]

^Actually, it doesn't fit with the 1979 report at all.

People believe in conspiracies because it makes them feel better.

It is so much easier to believe that your powerful hero gets struck down by a cabal of evil forces than by a single, insignificant assassin.

 

[Cicero]

^Actually, it doesn't fit with the 1979 report at all.

How not? They appear to share the same conclusions regarding how the president was killed: a shot by Oswald which tumbled, etc. to strike the other persons hit, too.

 

[John Picard]

I don't believe the "magic bullet" explanation of the Warren Commission. I think there was more than one shooter.

 

[RAMA]

There may have very well been multiple conspiracies, none of them came to fruition at Dealey Plaza however. All the theories have been debunked over the years. Oswald was the lone shooter and planner.

RAMA

 

[CaptJimboJones]

I was pretty much convinced by Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" book that there was no conspiracy. Oswald just got really, really lucky.

Speaking of JFK, as someone who lives in the Dallas area, I highly recommend the Sixth Floor Museum to anyone who visits. Its on the fabled 6th floor of the Dallas Book Depository on Dealy Plaza, and it's a museum and archive about the Kennedy administration, the 1960s and the assassination. It has preserved the corner where Oswald fired the shots through the window. It's a fascinating piece of history.

Then you can walk down the street to the grassy knoll, which is kind of cool. The area is also full of zany conspiracy types handing out pamphlets.

 

[Dayton3]

^Actually, it doesn't fit with the 1979 report at all.

How not? They appear to share the same conclusions regarding how the president was killed: a shot by Oswald which tumbled, etc. to strike the other persons hit, too.

The 1979 House Select Committee Report suggests a conspiracy while IIRC, the Discovery Channel suggested otherwise.

I've heard from people who study these things that while it is very likely that Oswald was the only shooter and wasn't involved in a conspiracy, additional research needs to be done into Oswalds background and associations as his motives sometimes seem rather thin.

 

[Captain X]

I don't believe the "magic bullet" explanation of the Warren Commission. I think there was more than one shooter.

There was nothing magic about it - it went in a straight line like any other bullet. The only reason anyone ever talks about a "magic bullet" is because they apparently don't notice that the other guy who got shot was sitting lower and to the left of the President, and he wasn't facing straight forward. The History Channel had a really good show on this, and they even brought up that movie which was way more Hollywood than History.

 

[Cicero]

^Actually, it doesn't fit with the 1979 report at all.

How not? They appear to share the same conclusions regarding how the president was killed: a shot by Oswald which tumbled, etc. to strike the other persons hit, too.

The 1979 House Select Committee Report suggests a conspiracy while IIRC, the Discovery Channel suggested otherwise.

I've heard from people who study these things that while it is very likely that Oswald was the only shooter and wasn't involved in a conspiracy, additional research needs to be done into Oswalds background and associations as his motives sometimes seem rather thin.

Wasn't the Discovery Channel's investigation only into the physical aspects of the assassination?

 

[RAMA]

I was pretty much convinced by Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" book that there was no conspiracy. Oswald just got really, really lucky.

Speaking of JFK, as someone who lives in the Dallas area, I highly recommend the Sixth Floor Museum to anyone who visits. Its on the fabled 6th floor of the Dallas Book Depository on Dealy Plaza, and it's a museum and archive about the Kennedy administration, the 1960s and the assassination. It has preserved the corner where Oswald fired the shots through the window. It's a fascinating piece of history.

Then you can walk down the street to the grassy knoll, which is kind of cool. The area is also full of zany conspiracy types handing out pamphlets.

If you read Posner's book you know it wasn't really luck...Oswald had both the motive(s) and skills necessary to pull it off. It was opportunity (Oswald knew of JFK's visit from a newspaper a day or two before) meeting ability.

Incidentally, most of the conspiracy theories have resulted from a hasty Warren Commission summary rather than any intent to hide the truth. Their are mistakes in it that can be explained with only a little empirical thought.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

^ Actually, the 1979 report on the assassination by the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that there were probably two shooters, and that President Kennedy's assassination was probably the result of a conspiracy. Their findings:

1. Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
2. Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
3. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
   • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
4. Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. The conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive.

The committee also concluded it was probable that the second shooter fired from the "grassy knoll," and fired the third of four total shots fired (which missed), and that the single bullet theory was correct. These findings place the Committee in agreement with the suspicions of President Johnson and Attorney General Kennedy, who both believed that a cabal of conspirators were responsible for JFK's death.

(This approaches the total of my knowledge of the Kennedy assassination.)

Some of the reasons for concluding this in the report have since been discredited, including the timing on a dictaphone recording on a police motorcycle, and the lack of evidence for more than three bullet hits.

RAMA

 

[Cicero]

^ I thought the discrediting of the dictaphone evidence had itself been discredited just after the turn of the millennium.

Really, I'd like a new Federal investigation to clear up the issues which have arisen since the previous one.

 

[RevDMV]

I'm willing to run with the single gunman theory; except Oswald was seen in the repository(break room no obviously suspicious looks or activity, which law enforcement might have keyed on as they rushed past him to the sixth floor) after the assassination. Aft Jack Ruby's ridiculously long list of connections to organized crime.

I don't buy into the super conspiracy stories that included half the planet and it's leaders, but I'd like to know more about some of the details. Not that that is even possible.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I don't believe the conspiracy theories. At least so much time has passed that nobody is claiming he's still alive anymore....

 

[stoneroses]

I am with Bill Hicks on the subject...

 

[FordSVT]

I think there was likely only one shooter, but I believe it's possible that Oswald wasn't acting alone. It's unlikely we'll ever find out, and I'mnot losing sleep over it. Anyone who might have been involved in such a conspiracy (CIA, KGB, whatever) is likely dead anyway.

 

[RAMA]

^ I thought the discrediting of the dictaphone evidence had itself been discredited just after the turn of the millennium.

Really, I'd like a new Federal investigation to clear up the issues which have arisen since the previous one.

Nope, there has since been evidence that the policeman's motorcycle was not even where the scientists who presented the acoustic evidence said it would be, nullifying the acoustic evidence from the word go. Even so, the 4th shot was an echo, from an acoustically "live" Dealey Plaza.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

I'm willing to run with the single gunman theory; except Oswald was seen in the repository(break room no obviously suspicious looks or activity, which law enforcement might have keyed on as they rushed past him to the sixth floor) after the assassination. Aft Jack Ruby's ridiculously long list of connections to organized crime.

I don't buy into the super conspiracy stories that included half the planet and it's leaders, but I'd like to know more about some of the details. Not that that is even possible.

Oswald was the only employee missing. Why would he disappear? Ballastic evidence is conclusive that it was his rifle, and his finger prints were found at the snipers nest and on the weapon...in any court of law, Oswald would have been fried, even without the 2,000 pieces of evidence collected against him in later years.

RAMA