Spoilers Jedi worshipers in the Disney canon

[Solid Snack]

One thing I've sort of noticed in TFA, and from early stuff about Rogue One, is that there sort of seems to be a group of people who are devoted to the force and Jedi, but are not necesarilly 'force-sensitive' or Jediish.

We see this with Lor Son Tekka (Max Von Sydow) in the opening of TFA, who seems to know a bit about the force/jedi/etc. and had some level of contact with Luke and his family (including Ben, as Kylo recognizes him). However he doesn't appear to have any force powers. Some of the extra material released for the films state that Tekka is actually sort of a priest in a sort of force/Jedi cult, and many of his followers are villagers in the Jakku village.

In Rogue One this seems to be established even further, with one of the planets, "Jedah" being a Jedi holy site (Perhaps where they came from? Or maybe it's still Luke's TFA planet) possibly being a setting for the movie, and the Donnie Yen character and his buddy seeming to mention the force as their inspiration, plus Yen displaying some possibly Jedi-inspired fighting skills. It's possible the planet is destroyed in some sense ("You destroyed our home!")



Of course in the OT the Rebels had the "May the force be with us" motto, but it wasn't really elaborated on, perhaps as a contrast to the Imperials who, despite their leader being a Sith (Although perhaps not publicly) and Vader's abilities, are sort of more dismissive of it. The legends EU also seemed to have some alternates to the Jedi and Sith, explored in stuff such as Black Fleet Crisis, I, Jedi; Fate of the Jedi, Coruscant Nights etc. Of course Han and some others are also dismissive of the force a bit too, but at least some characters, like Jabba, are aware of the Jedi and Luke knows of their role in the Clone Wars.

Any thoughts on this new sort of take on the force and Jedi's impact on the galaxy post-PT?

 

[JD]

There is no possibly about, they've already said that Jedha is one of the planets the character visit in the movie. All of the deserty marketplace scenes we see in the trailer are Jedha. I don't know if he's been identified as a member of The Church of The Force, but they've already said that Chirrut Imwe is a non-Jedi Force believer.
I really like the idea of people who aren't Jedi but still follow the Force philosophies. Since it's pretty clear from the Jedi's abilities that the Force is real, I think it makes a lot of sense that there would be other groups who base their philosophy/religion around it.

 

[Ithekro]

It is also quite likely the Death Star will do a "low powered" test shot at Jedha.

 

[Reverend]

It's a curious thought that the galaxy would need the Jedi in order to prove the veracity of a force based religion's beliefs. I mean sure, it's a hell of a bonus but generally speaking, real world religions make all kinds of wildly outlandish claims with absolutely zero evidence.
With that in mind it's astonishing that the EU authors never picked up on this. *Of course* there would be force religions made up of non-sensitives. Indeed, that's probably how the Jedi started before they became an order of warrior monks.

Not sure I like the term "Church of the Force" though. To me "Church" has to many western monotheistic connotations and almost everything to do with the Force has a decidedly eastern philosophical vibe to it.

 

[Ithekro]

The old EU did have some, but nearly all of them were Dark Sider cultist and the like. I think there might have been one light side cult that worshiped a force user that was later picked up by Luke Skywalker, but it has been a while since I read the older novels were look is gathering his first groups of students.

 

[Jedman67]

The old EU did have some, but nearly all of them were Dark Sider cultist and the like. I think there might have been one light side cult that worshiped a force user that was later picked up by Luke Skywalker, but it has been a while since I read the older novels were look is gathering his first groups of students.

His student was a Force-witch from Dathomir, a planet where the witches 'cast spells' to harness their force-ability. The background is from The Courtship of Princess Leia, I believe by Dave Wolverton

 

[Smoked Salmon]

It's a curious thought that the galaxy would need the Jedi in order to prove the veracity of a force based religion's beliefs. I mean sure, it's a hell of a bonus but generally speaking, real world religions make all kinds of wildly outlandish claims with absolutely zero evidence.
With that in mind it's astonishing that the EU authors never picked up on this. *Of course* there would be force religions made up of non-sensitives. Indeed, that's probably how the Jedi started before they became an order of warrior monks.

Not sure I like the term "Church of the Force" though. To me "Church" has to many western monotheistic connotations and almost everything to do with the Force has a decidedly eastern philosophical vibe to it.

Well, I suppose the difference is that unlike our religions, The Force is evidenced in the SW universe, so there is a greater reason to believe in it. The Jedi are those who harnessed it's energy for good, so that is why they are revered as saint like entities.

 

[Solid Snack]

The witches from Dathomir were actually incorporated into the 'new' canon, pretty much (as clone wars remains canonical).-they've even been weaved into Darth Maul's origins. However, I'm not sure they count as they're force-sensitive.

 

[Reverend]

The old EU did have some, but nearly all of them were Dark Sider cultist and the like. I think there might have been one light side cult that worshiped a force user that was later picked up by Luke Skywalkera, but it has been a while since I read the older novels were look is gathering his first groups of students.

I don't recall any lightside cults persee but then I didn't exactly read every last thing.

So sure, there were little cults, usually darkside and the force figured into the beliefs of individual species/planetary civilisations like the Wookiees, the Ithorians (I think?) and lately with the Lasat. And as others have pointed out there's also the Witches of Dathomir.

The thing with the witches though is that in the original source material, what little we saw of them didn't really reveal much about their beliefs. Really they were just a stand-in for fairly generic amazon sorceress fantasy tropes with magic oh so thinly veiled as force use.

None of this amounts to anything like a widespread religion, which you'd expect in a galactic civilisation that's been around for literally dozens of millennia. Sure I can buy that the Empire suppressed it as much as they could, but logically it should have been there in some form in the TotJ/KotOR era stories and at least signs of it reemerging should have shown up in the old New Republic era books and beyond.

So yeah, that's a fairly major and obvious thing that the EU entirely failed to pick up on and I'm glad the new material is starting to touch on it.

Well, I suppose the difference is that unlike our religions, The Force is evidenced in the SW universe, so there is a greater reason to believe in it.

Yeah, that was my whole point.

The Jedi are those who harnessed it's energy for good, so that is why they are revered as saint like entities.

I wouldn't go that far exactly.

 

[Ithekro]

I was thinking of the Eol Sha from Jedi Search but I don't know if they worshiped Jedi or just has a force user as a leader.

 

[Reverend]

I was thinking of the Eol Sha from Jedi Search but I don't know if they worshiped Jedi or just has a force user as a leader.

Skimming the wiki article, it just looks like the leader was a force user and decedent of a Jedi. Not sure if that would even qualify as a cult to be honest.

 

[Ithekro]

As I said, it was a long time ago when I read that one. Twenty years ago or more.

 

[Reverend]

Wasn't there also some weird cult in 'Crystal Star'? Again though, like most of the others in the EU it's only there to serve a particular story and doesn't really add anything to the larger picture.

My memory is a bit fuzzy but did the Krath really count as a cult? I mean all I recall is a bunch of bored nobles fiddling about with Sith artefacts. I don't recall there being much in the way of worship or even followers.

 

[JD]

Baze and Chirrut are going to be getting their own middle grade novel, so there's a chance that might be able to give us a bit more info on Chirrut's belief system than the movie will probably have time to.

 

[Reverend]

Baze and Chirrut are going to be getting their own middle grade novel, so there's a chance that might be able to give us a bit more info on Chirrut's belief system than the movie will probably have time to.

Of course it's too early to say until the movie comes out, but I suspect Chirrut's beliefs are in line with the basic Jedi teachings, rather than part of a separate religion. I wonder if the non-Jedi temple workers were such as he, or were they part of a more organised belief system? Considering how people began to become disenchanted with the Jedi towards the end of the Clone Wars, I wonder if that impacted the more Jedi centric sects?

Did the Jedi teach the ways of the force to non-force users, or keep it all to themselves? If I had to guess I'd say the former used to be the case but by the prequel era it was pretty much the latter.

Just speculating, but I have a mental picture of the very early Jedi being primarily teachers, collecting and sharing knowledge freely, helping to tie together what would eventually become the Republic. Only later would they use their martial skills at first to defend the helpless then later to push back against the dark. I like to think that they didn't start out as warriors.

 

[fireproof78]

The Jedi also had the service corps, which may have resulted in more contact with the greater galactic population, especially the Education Corps.

 

[Reverend]

The Jedi also had the service corps, which may have resulted in more contact with the greater galactic population, especially the Education Corps.

Cart or horse though? Did the order create the service corps to connect with the ordinary people, or is the service corps all that is left of what the Order used to be before they expanded their area of expertise? I like to think it's the latter. It seems to better support the notion that they strayed far from their purpose and became lost and less connected to the force.

Or maybe it's a bit of both. Perhaps the order came from some other more martial organisation in a time of strife before disarming and dedicating themselves to peace. Their former warrior skills re-purposed as martial arts for self defence and physical discipline only. Not unlike how many eastern martial arts evolved.

Then perhaps millennia later when the Sith first rose up, they took up their Sabers again and it's been more or less downhill ever since. I'm just speculating of course.

Side note: I'm not sure that material is canon since it's pre-Disney, but I think it's safe to assume most of the material itself is still reflective of what the LFSG thinks of the Jedi Order, at least in the broad strokes.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, I realize that it is Legends material but I also think it covers the Order rather well. It honestly, at least to my speculation, would be interesting if any Jedi went "native" in their teaching the local populations and survived Order 66.

 

[Reverend]

Yes, I realize that it is Legends material but I also think it covers the Order rather well.

Oh I agree, I really liked that book as it made the Jedi feel more like a plausible organisation. I think my favourite part was the notion that a Jedi usually only attains the rank of "Master" when their first Padawan is knighted. It's a small detail I know, but this aspect always seemed more arbitrary in the EU. This reinforces the notion of the Jedi being educators first and foremost, so it would make sense that the final test of becoming a master is to pass on their knowledge. Indeed, it was one of the last things Yoda said to Luke.
It's also adds some interesting context to Anakin's frustration of being denied the rank of Master when you (retroactively I know) factor in the situation with Ahsoka.

Since it's such a recent and comprehensive work I'm inclined to assume this is still pretty much what they're going with. That all said, strictly speaking, it's not canon so I wouldn't go so far as to presume they're necessarily bound to anything in that book, anymore than they're bound to the old RPG sourcebooks.

It honestly, at least to my speculation, would be interesting if any Jedi went "native" in their teaching the local populations and survived Order 66.

Anything is possible, but I get the feeling that Vader and the inquisitors would have been quite thorough. They did after all have access the Temple archives so they'd know where anyone not directly involved in the war effort would have been assigned. Also worth bearing in mind that according to that book, most of the service corps would have been made up of those who didn't pass their trials as padawans or simply chose not to become knights.
Compared to someone of Vader's skill and experience, they'd be sitting ducks.

 

[fireproof78]

All of that is fair points, but I was thinking more a long the lines of Kynes from the novel "Dune." He still served as the Imperial planetologist, but he had a whole identity among the Fremen. Honestly, if he had let his Kynes identity die and continued on as the Fremen leader he might not have been as easily found.

So, using that as a starting point, some Jedi may have developed whole identities within the cultures they were instructing, and simply vanished in to the culture. Vader might be able to sense the Force user but not if they were a Jedi.

But, your point still stands that Vader would likely find them.