Janeway's worst decisions?

[Guy Gardener]

In the beginning of Speed, they posed an impossible hostage situation for Keanu to solve, and his response to the conundrum was to shoot the hostage because then the hostage taker had no leverage and had to the leave behind the screaming and bleeding person if they wanted to escape. Come the end of the movie, Keanu shoots Jeff Bridges who is being held hostage by Dennis Hopper and wins the day. With less care that's why Kaiser Soze shot his wife and children when those idiots were trying to prove who was boss, thinking they could control him just by putting a pistol in his wife's mouth.

You shoot the hostage.

I have done so much baby sitting over the years. The Power Puff Girls is bloody funny and a hell of a sight more entertaining than most of the other shit i have been forced to tolerate while playing with blocks and handing out juice boxes. power Puff Girls is almost as saracastic as I am.

I'm watching Scoundrels (It's new,) right now, and they're telling the fable of the frog and the scorpion. Go Scorpion!

 

[exodus]

In the beginning of Speed, they posed an impossible hostage situation for Keanu to solve, and his response to the conundrum was to shoot the hostage because then the hostage taker had no leverage and had to the leave behind the screaming and bleeding person if they wanted to escape. Come the end of the movie, Keanu shoots Jeff Bridges who is being held hostage by Dennis Hopper and wins the day. With less care that's why Kaiser Soze shot his wife and children when those idiots were trying to prove who was boss, thinking they could control him just by putting a pistol in his wife's mouth.

You shoot the hostage.

I have done so much baby sitting over the years. The Power Puff Girls is bloody funny and a hell of a sight more entertaining than most of the other shit i have been forced to tolerate while playing with blocks and handing out juice boxes. power Puff Girls is almost as saracastic as I am.

I'm watching Scoundrels (It's new,) right now, and they're telling the fable of the frog and the scorpion. Go Scorpion!

Reel it back in, my friend.
You're rambling.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I do nothing but ramble!

I'm a rambling man.

Speed is one of the worst movies ever made.

And each sequel did become geometrically worse than the last.

The only justification for Speed was the Sandra Bullock episode of Muppets Tonight were a crazed puppet phones in and says that if the ratings of the episode (that evening which they were filming live) fall below 50, then he is going to blow up the studio.

 

[Caligula]

Killing Tuvix to restore Neelix and Tuvok. Certainly a unique moral decision, only Janeway doesn't act very conflicted when she shoves the Doctor and Ensign Kim aside so that SHE can push the button!

That's right because she shouldn't.
This is part of what it means to be a military captain & leader. She took full responsabilty into her own hands, so pass or fail, the full weight of her actions falls on her & her alone.
What Janeway did is just an extension of the same test Troi had to take to earn her command position, which was to send Geordi to his death.. Sisko explained it in even greater detail in "Rules of Engagement". Being in a command position means you have to understand that you have to send officiers to their death for the greater good and accepting death yourself even without a fight. Tuvok being chief of security also knows this very well because he'd be in the same position every time he sends a security officer into any situation. This is an oath all these Starfleet officers took. So he'd have no issues in Janeways choice.

Let me say first that you make a very good argument. However, there's one problem. Asking one of your crew to give their life for the greater good in the line of duty is sad, but ends up being heroic on the part of said crewman. For the captain to have that crewman physically dragged to their eventual murder at the hands of their commanding officer is something entirely different, and that's what truly happened to Tuvix. The fact that it resulted in the restoration of two other people doesn't excuse her. What gets me is that this was never even questioned in the context of or in any kind of a follow-up to this episode. Basically, it was if the writers were saying to us: "Janeway's right. Anyone else who thinks otherwise is wrong. Deal with it." Some debate would have been intriguing, I think.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was almost followed up by accident in Riddles.

Nuvok liked his new personality from after his brainwipe and it took the Doctor a while to figure out how to get the old Tuvok personality back, and when he finally had: Nuvok said "You are not going to murder me just because you like HIM more." Now we didn't get into a Tuvix issue where Janeway had to force Nuvok to under go brain Surgery to gut his new personality because although there was a ticking clock counting down to when he was supposed to go under the knife, Nuvok didn't actually defy the clock striking zero and in-so did casually begin walking towards his slaughter like some sort of stupid sheep when he was ordered/asked to do so because it was barealy never considered that he wouldn't want to kill himself for the greater good. Here's why this is a Tuvix issue. After Nuvok said screw off (is that a phrase?) and sat down waiting to be dragged to his surgery by security, it was NEELIX who who talked Nuvok into rebecomming Tuvok without once mentioning Tuvix, but he did it. it was his point of view and personal ethics system which constructed the argument that Tuvok was better than Nuvok. In this act (talking to someone until they commit suicide?) we see Neelix's beliefs towards right and wrong on the subject in that the original life form has rights that should be respected even if that life form has no voice to claim those rights.

It's possible that the writers didn't know or understand what the hell they were doing here by making these characters do what they did in their story without regard or knowledge to/of past events. Y'Know: The Voyager Way.

 

[vas2009]

Killing Tuvix to restore Neelix and Tuvok. Certainly a unique moral decision, only Janeway doesn't act very conflicted when she shoves the Doctor and Ensign Kim aside so that SHE can push the button!

That's right because she shouldn't.
This is part of what it means to be a military captain & leader. She took full responsabilty into her own hands, so pass or fail, the full weight of her actions falls on her & her alone.
What Janeway did is just an extension of the same test Troi had to take to earn her command position, which was to send Geordi to his death.. Sisko explained it in even greater detail in "Rules of Engagement". Being in a command position means you have to understand that you have to send officiers to their death for the greater good and accepting death yourself even without a fight. Tuvok being chief of security also knows this very well because he'd be in the same position every time he sends a security officer into any situation. This is an oath all these Starfleet officers took. So he'd have no issues in Janeways choice.

Totally Agree

It's possible that the writers didn't know or understand what the hell they were doing here by making these characters do what they did in their story without regard or knowledge to/of past events. Y'Know: The Voyager Way.

They didn't.
I mean...I didn't. I saw it and thought *sigh thank god they didn't keep THAT guy! Rough call for ol' Janeway...
Sometimes I think even the writers think *It's just a TV show.* and they forget about the impact it could make or the extent of the emotions it might bring.

 

[Nerubian]

Half way through a re-watch at the Scorpion episodes with 8472 and man is it bothering me.

Her worst act is for me obvious - abusing time travel for personal gain, the sheer scale of that crime is beyond compare.

But what shes doing now with the Borg is a close second.

With very little information about the situation (pretty much just Kess' visions) Janeway launches into a plan for biological warfare against an alien species she knows almost nothing about and has no personal quarrel with. This rapidly escalates into full on assisted genocide with the Borg, a race already guilty of the genocide of countless species.
Even when its revealed the Borg started hostilities with 8472 by invading their realm and trying to assimilate them (making 8472 actions defensive as the aggrieved party) she doesn't reasses the validity of her actions for even 1 second.

Again all this is based on Kess alone saying 'they want to destroy everything'. An extremely vague comment from an unreliable psychic trying to interpret the thoughts of a very alien species.
We dont even see or hear of 8472 attacking non Borg worlds.

Chakotay who is usually annoying is the voice of sanity here and pretty much tells her how wrong she is but she dismisses his concerns on the flawed basis of her misguided belief that 8472 are on a quest to destroy the entire galaxy - an epicly wild assumption she has no evidence for. Just the idea of them even attempting such a feat is implausible given the size of the galaxy.
The people she's allying with however have a long proven record of genocide and intent to conquer the galaxy of which they have already achieved in no small amount yet somehow 8472 is the threat and not the Borg.

Basically after 3 years in the DQ and turning down several chances to get home because of Starfleet rules and moral principles - Janeway willingly attempts to commit genocide on behalf of another mass murdering species for the sole reason of shaving a few 100/1000 light years off their trip.
The contradiction is beyond comprehension.

Assuming she was never punished for the time travel - she should of been court martialed and imprisoned for life for these actions.

 

[The Lonely Man]

8472 did attack Kim as well remember ?

 

[Nerubian]

8472 did attack Kim as well remember ?

Kim getting bitch slapped is grounds for genocide?.

Remember Kim and the others were trespassing uninvited on the aliens ship when this happened. Most sentient species including humans react with hostility when strange aliens poke around your ship or the Borg vessel you just destroyed without announcing yourselves first.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I didn't say that, merely that one of her crewmembers was directly attacked by 8472.
Janeway had no way of knowing there was anyone from 8472 on board the cube.
At this stage she was merely trying to find out what happened.

 

[2takesfrakes]

What was Janeway's worst decision?

Denying Chakotay. Plain ... and ... simple.

She almost had it all. But .. OH WELL!!! You can lead a horse to water, but can you make it drink? That's what no one has answer for. All of those dark and airless nights, as she went to bed alone, crying hard into her pillow ... with the answer right in front of her, the entire time:

Chakotay.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It took two to 5 months for that tomato tree to grow in the final minutes of Resolutions.

Stuff could have happened.

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[marlboro]

An incident that I don't think has been mentioned took place in "Memorial." You know, the one where the bit of alien tech forces unwary visitors to relive memories of being participants in a brutal massacre? Well, anyway, in the end Janeway and Neelix think it would be a darn shame not to fix that machine up so more people can enjoy being mind raped and given PTSD and memories of being cold blooded butchers.

I guess the writer must have had some vague inkling that this ending was insane so he had Janeway leave a beacon warning future travelers that the site might be dangerous. Which completely undercuts her previous decision to repair the evil machine as a memorial only to leave a mess age saying "stay away!" Who the hell wants to get their brain scrambled with horrific images?

So now the ending is not only insane, it's now stupid beyond belief to boot.

It's like if Picard took the probe from "Inner Light" and combined it with the memory machinations that O'Brien experienced in "Hard Time" and sent it on its merry way - because people should know that being in prison is not fun. Never forget that.

 

[Tundra Saint]

Giving up that poor bastard in Unforgettable to get mind-wiped while celebrating, but making an exception for the woman who did it because she was dating Chakotay.