Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

[Guy Gardener]

Neelix needed a constant supply of Probes forever, milked from Seven

Hmmm, and does Neelix literally "milk" them from Seven?

Now there's an mental image.

The assimilation tubules that come out of her wrists are technically udder-fangs.

The Doctor handles her udder-fangs, and passes the finished product on to Neelix.

It's not dirty at all.

 

[R. Star]

How disappointing. Given how quickly the Doctor put her in that catsuit, fantasizes about drawing her in the nude you'd think he'd be all over "milking" nanoprobes from the traditional source.

 

[spot_loves_data]

It's pretty clear that Tuvix did not get a full Starfleet funeral, but as his widow, despite that there is no money in the future, did T'Pel get death Benefits, or a stipend, or a pension from the assassination of her husband that she hadn't actually met per se?

I think she'd just be grateful he's dead. Imagine having Tuvix show up on your doorstep one day and announce he's your husband. Weeks later, as the horror starts to fade, he lets slip that he's been boinking your holographic replica for years.

 

[Guy Gardener]

As soon as there's a new girl in the holocatalogue, everyone has sex with her.

 

[Melakon]

It's pretty clear that Tuvix did not get a full Starfleet funeral, but as his widow, despite that there is no money in the future, did T'Pel get death Benefits, or a stipend, or a pension from the assassination of her husband that she hadn't actually met per se?

I think she'd just be grateful he's dead.

T'Pel was probably shacking up with Tuvok's handsome brother that was never ever mentioned as soon as he went undercover on that Maquis mission.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

My dear Melakon, Vulcans do not "shack".

 

[Gov Kodos]

My dear Melakon, Vulcans do not "shack".

Well, that's not the impression I got from T'Pring.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Betrothed at Birth, then married at the first biological inconvenience.

In Star Trek II, Spock hit puberty, had his first Pon far at 7, where Savvik thought it was okay for a 7 year old to go to town on her business area rather than wait for his face to explode like in Scanners.

So why, oh why, with his original body, didn't Spock meet T'Pring until he was 28?

What happened the first three times?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Delayed from being half human?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Would that make her happy or sad, that her halfbreed fiancé stood her up three times?

She's a thirty year old v, a 28 year old Virgin when all her friends got knocked up at 7.

 

[Melakon]

She's a thirty year old v, a 28 year old Virgin when all her friends got knocked up at 7.

Who said she was a virgin when Stonn was around all the time?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Depends if you're retroactively filling the gaps?

Originally Vulcan's didn't mate out of season.

Of course does that mean that a boy or a girl can't be psychically linked into a Pon far mesh with more than one individual?

T'Pring might have been caught in the gears of two men's wheels.

 

[spot_loves_data]

Originally Vulcan's didn't mate out of season.

But then there was the Rumarie festival where they'd coat themselves in Rillan grease and have at it.

 

[Dal Rassak]

they did?! I must've missed that particular episode...(grin)

One word on the original subject, it's incensed me that there was even a debate about what to do with "Tuvix". He wasn't some kind of new life-form, in fact he wasn't even an individual in the true sense. "He" was the mere result of an accident involving two real individuals who became accidentally merged. Neither of the two seperate selves would have wanted to exist in this particular state, which has to be considered first. Seperating them again is merely restoring their normal existence to them; no-one is being "killed". No-one had been conceived in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You understand that what you said is a real world argument for abortion?

Souless parasitic genetic material that's going to destroy the lives of two real people.

Cotigo ergo sum.

Hey?

If abortion is legal... Couldn't you stuff someone, even a fully grown adult, back inside their mother and then legally kill them without fear of the law coming down on you?

 

[T'Girl]

Neither of the two seperate selves would have wanted to exist in this particular state, which has to be considered first

Voyager did on occasion engage in multi-episode story arcs.

When did we ever hear of Tuvok and Neelix attempting to recombine themselves "back" into Tuvix in subsequent episodes?

... no-one is being "killed"

Oh, of course no one was being killed. Tuvix was back where he started, existing as two separate beings, one named Tuvok, and another named Neelix.

Neither Tuvok nor Neelix seemed particular surprised when they materialized in sickbay following their restoration. This weighs me in favor of both of them remembering their time as Tuvix.

 

[MacLeod]

There is something known as ahybrid, where parts of two gentically distict individuals are combine to create a new. So if we create a new plant i.e a wheat planet that can survive in more arid regions. Is that not still a living organism?

So in "Tuvix" we have organism 1 Tuvok and organism 2 Neelix which are combined tocreate a new organsim. True in nature the orginals are generally not lost.

Now the closest case we've seen on ST that might come close is "Measure of a Man"

And on determing if Data was a life form or not we had three criteria

1.>Intellignece
2.>Self-Awareness
3.>Consciouness (aka a Soul)

Well Tuvix was definatly Intelligent, he seemed self-aware as for the 3rd point just as in the case with Data it can't be proven. But Data was at least granted the right to explore that possibility.

 

[Brit]

There is something known as ahybrid, where parts of two gentically distict individuals are combine to create a new. So if we create a new plant i.e a wheat planet that can survive in more arid regions. Is that not still a living organism?

So in "Tuvix" we have organism 1 Tuvok and organism 2 Neelix which are combined tocreate a new organsim. True in nature the orginals are generally not lost.

Now the closest case we've seen on ST that might come close is "Measure of a Man"

And on determing if Data was a life form or not we had three criteria

1.>Intellignece
2.>Self-Awareness
3.>Consciouness (aka a Soul)

Well Tuvix was definatly Intelligent, he seemed self-aware as for the 3rd point just as in the case with Data it can't be proven. But Data was at least granted the right to explore that possibility.

This isn't the same, Data is an individual on his own. Created yes, but two other people didn't have to give up their lives for him to exist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So there's no possibility that data's fuel cell is powered by human eyes?

Data has the souls/memories of the entire colony he was "born" on in side his brain.

Sure them all dying is something that just happened, and they barely survived the extraction process like some of us barely survive blowing our noses.

From Silicone Avatar.
MARR: I'd heard that you'd been programmed with the experiences of the colonists, but frankly I find it hard to believe. Bridge.
DATA: It is true, Doctor. The contents of their logs and journals were transferred into my memory cells. The man who created me also experimented with scanning the synaptic patterns of the colonists' temporal lobes and programming them into my neural nets.
MARR: You possess their thoughts?
DATA: To some degree. Doctor Soong hoped to provide me with an amalgam of the colonists' memories.
MARR: Interesting.

Without the 150 colonists donating their minds to the Data experiment, he would not have become a real boy... And how do we know that these lives were freely donated, when it's just as likely that Soong raped his friends while they slept or leveraged them with some kind of blackmail, or even "paid" for some of the colonists minds in so that data's birth was the result of prostitution.

They might have been happy that they made data, but if these colonists who also most probably built up Lore's soul too had survived, they would have damn well asked for their souls back from that murderous asshole.

 

[R. Star]

There is something known as ahybrid, where parts of two gentically distict individuals are combine to create a new. So if we create a new plant i.e a wheat planet that can survive in more arid regions. Is that not still a living organism?

So in "Tuvix" we have organism 1 Tuvok and organism 2 Neelix which are combined tocreate a new organsim. True in nature the orginals are generally not lost.

Now the closest case we've seen on ST that might come close is "Measure of a Man"

And on determing if Data was a life form or not we had three criteria

1.>Intellignece
2.>Self-Awareness
3.>Consciouness (aka a Soul)

Well Tuvix was definatly Intelligent, he seemed self-aware as for the 3rd point just as in the case with Data it can't be proven. But Data was at least granted the right to explore that possibility.

This isn't the same, Data is an individual on his own. Created yes, but two other people didn't have to give up their lives for him to exist.

Tuvix didn't cause the accident. He was the result of it. He meets the criteria to be an individual... the same ones Data did you admit... but just because he refused to sacrifice himself for the benefit of two others, you'd deny him his life? I just don't think in a moral society, any authority should be able to take an innocent life against their will regardless of the circumstances.