Janeway - worthy TREK Captain or not?

[CorporalClegg]

dude I would love to have that outfit for myself

And I would so love for you to have an outfit like that.

Speaking for myself, I don't see any real difference between the look of Voyager and TNG. So they used warmer colors on the TNG set and more metalic ones on the Voyager one, so what? Most of the Voyager sets were built from the Ent-D ones, i.e. Sickbay, corridors, transporter room. A new coat of paint keeps them from being dated?!?!?!?

How does the Enterprise-D look like a luxery liner? I've been on cruises and they don't look anything like the Ent-D on the inside or the outside.

And I don't get how the TNG sets look 80s. I was a kid in the 80s and the one thing about them, artistically, was loud primary colors. Look at the Police synchronicity tourh, Cyndi Lauper videos, etc. It was all about loud clothes and colored hair, basically, post-modern art to an extreme.

The TNG sets imo, don't echo the 80s at all. The only thing that looks dated in TNG, imo, are some of the earlier (seasons 1 and 2) imo.

The inclusion of the ship's shrink, according to Ron Moore and Joe Menkosky, was something that makes TNG look dated, because therapy took off in the 80s, but as for the rest, I just don't see it.

The original show looks dated with its more primitive interfaces and some of the pulpier conventions (it did a great job of keeping what was great of the past with westerns and old adventure movies and looking towards the future imo), but, honestly, I don't see any big differences between TNG and VOY at all. IMO VOY was just TNG v2.

You must not have seen a whole lot of 80s style architecture. Everything was earthy, bland and bright.

But I didn't just mean the look of the ship. The characters and stories all had 1980s conceptual undertones.

Much of the dialog is time-stamped as well.

 

[rocketscientist]

dude I would love to have that outfit for myself

And I would so love for you to have an outfit like that.

Speaking for myself, I don't see any real difference between the look of Voyager and TNG. So they used warmer colors on the TNG set and more metalic ones on the Voyager one, so what? Most of the Voyager sets were built from the Ent-D ones, i.e. Sickbay, corridors, transporter room. A new coat of paint keeps them from being dated?!?!?!?

How does the Enterprise-D look like a luxery liner? I've been on cruises and they don't look anything like the Ent-D on the inside or the outside.

And I don't get how the TNG sets look 80s. I was a kid in the 80s and the one thing about them, artistically, was loud primary colors. Look at the Police synchronicity tourh, Cyndi Lauper videos, etc. It was all about loud clothes and colored hair, basically, post-modern art to an extreme.

The TNG sets imo, don't echo the 80s at all. The only thing that looks dated in TNG, imo, are some of the earlier (seasons 1 and 2) imo.

The inclusion of the ship's shrink, according to Ron Moore and Joe Menkosky, was something that makes TNG look dated, because therapy took off in the 80s, but as for the rest, I just don't see it.

The original show looks dated with its more primitive interfaces and some of the pulpier conventions (it did a great job of keeping what was great of the past with westerns and old adventure movies and looking towards the future imo), but, honestly, I don't see any big differences between TNG and VOY at all. IMO VOY was just TNG v2.

You must not have seen a whole lot of 80s style architecture. Everything was earthy, bland and bright.

I'm an engineer, not an architect. I wouldn't know what the difference between an 80s building and a 90s one looks like. And, in any case, the ships on ST are not buildings and, again, most of the sets on VOY were just TNG sets with a new coat of paint and a bit of redressing.

But I didn't just mean the look of the ship. The characters and stories all had 1980s conceptual undertones.
Much of the dialog is time-stamped as well.

[/quote]

Like what?! Really, I just don't see anything very different between TNG seaons 3-7 and VOY at all in characters, stories, undertones, etc. VOY looked to me like TNG all over again, with substitute characters, a new ship model, and a new coat of paint on the TNG sets. That's largely why I pretty much quit watching the show in season 7, because I felt like I'd had enough of TNG.

 

[rocketscientist]

True, true.

However, I find B5 to look way more dated than TNG.
Strangely enough, B5 looks more 80's with set & costume design even though it was filmed in the 90's.

I think TNG's now retro look fits with TOS retro and how designs come around again. Begin it started in a pre-Borg era, now Post-Borg and starfleet rethinking ship design, ENT-E now falls in line with Voyager. Seeing as how Starfleet ships are now not only made for exploration but combat as well. ENT-E & Voy. fit that new motif.

Speaking for myself, I don't see any real difference between the look of Voyager and TNG. So they used warmer colors on the TNG set and more metalic ones on the Voyager one, so what? Most of the Voyager sets were built from the Ent-D ones, i.e. Sickbay, corridors, transporter room. A new coat of paint keeps them from being dated?!?!?!?

How does the Enterprise-D look like a luxery liner? I've been on cruises and they don't look anything like the Ent-D on the inside or the outside.

And I don't get how the TNG sets look 80s. I was a kid in the 80s and the one thing about them, artistically, was loud primary colors. Look at the Police synchronicity tourh, Cyndi Lauper videos, etc. It was all about loud clothes and colored hair, basically, post-modern art to an extreme.

The TNG sets imo, don't echo the 80s at all. The only thing that looks dated in TNG, imo, are some of the earlier (seasons 1 and 2) imo.

The inclusion of the ship's shrink, according to Ron Moore and Joe Menkosky, was something that makes TNG look dated, because therapy took off in the 80s, but as for the rest, I just don't see it.

The original show looks dated with its more primitive interfaces and some of the pulpier conventions (it did a great job of keeping what was great of the past with westerns and old adventure movies and looking towards the future imo), but, honestly, I don't see any big differences between TNG and VOY at all. IMO VOY was just TNG v2.

Re-read what I wrote.

I said B5 looked 80's, I didn't say anything about TNG looking like that.

Also don't be so extreme. Having a style that's 80's doesn't mean Culture Club is going to come on playing on the set.

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

 

[Mrs Paris]

try watching voyager again, they are quite different

 

[exodus]

Speaking for myself, I don't see any real difference between the look of Voyager and TNG. So they used warmer colors on the TNG set and more metalic ones on the Voyager one, so what? Most of the Voyager sets were built from the Ent-D ones, i.e. Sickbay, corridors, transporter room. A new coat of paint keeps them from being dated?!?!?!?

How does the Enterprise-D look like a luxery liner? I've been on cruises and they don't look anything like the Ent-D on the inside or the outside.

And I don't get how the TNG sets look 80s. I was a kid in the 80s and the one thing about them, artistically, was loud primary colors. Look at the Police synchronicity tourh, Cyndi Lauper videos, etc. It was all about loud clothes and colored hair, basically, post-modern art to an extreme.

The TNG sets imo, don't echo the 80s at all. The only thing that looks dated in TNG, imo, are some of the earlier (seasons 1 and 2) imo.

The inclusion of the ship's shrink, according to Ron Moore and Joe Menkosky, was something that makes TNG look dated, because therapy took off in the 80s, but as for the rest, I just don't see it.

The original show looks dated with its more primitive interfaces and some of the pulpier conventions (it did a great job of keeping what was great of the past with westerns and old adventure movies and looking towards the future imo), but, honestly, I don't see any big differences between TNG and VOY at all. IMO VOY was just TNG v2.

Re-read what I wrote.

I said B5 looked 80's, I didn't say anything about TNG looking like that.

Also don't be so extreme. Having a style that's 80's doesn't mean Culture Club is going to come on playing on the set.

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

 

[rocketscientist]

True, true.

However, I find B5 to look way more dated than TNG.
Strangely enough, B5 looks more 80's with set & costume design even though it was filmed in the 90's.

I think TNG's now retro look fits with TOS retro and how designs come around again. Begin it started in a pre-Borg era, now Post-Borg and starfleet rethinking ship design, ENT-E now falls in line with Voyager. Seeing as how Starfleet ships are now not only made for exploration but combat as well. ENT-E & Voy. fit that new motif.

Speaking for myself, I don't see any real difference between the look of Voyager and TNG. So they used warmer colors on the TNG set and more metalic ones on the Voyager one, so what? Most of the Voyager sets were built from the Ent-D ones, i.e. Sickbay, corridors, transporter room. A new coat of paint keeps them from being dated?!?!?!?

How does the Enterprise-D look like a luxery liner? I've been on cruises and they don't look anything like the Ent-D on the inside or the outside.

And I don't get how the TNG sets look 80s. I was a kid in the 80s and the one thing about them, artistically, was loud primary colors. Look at the Police synchronicity tourh, Cyndi Lauper videos, etc. It was all about loud clothes and colored hair, basically, post-modern art to an extreme.

The TNG sets imo, don't echo the 80s at all. The only thing that looks dated in TNG, imo, are some of the earlier (seasons 1 and 2) imo.

The inclusion of the ship's shrink, according to Ron Moore and Joe Menkosky, was something that makes TNG look dated, because therapy took off in the 80s, but as for the rest, I just don't see it.

The original show looks dated with its more primitive interfaces and some of the pulpier conventions (it did a great job of keeping what was great of the past with westerns and old adventure movies and looking towards the future imo), but, honestly, I don't see any big differences between TNG and VOY at all. IMO VOY was just TNG v2.

voyager was much different than TNG. for one thing all the characters in Voy were much more interesting and complex, and the main point is that Voy didn't have starfleet covering their butts every episode. When Picard had a problem he could go crying to some admiral and get help. Voyager couldn't do that.

I didn't think the characters on VOY edged out the TNG characters in terms of interest or complexity. They did, however, dispense with the GR edict, the perfect people rule, more in VOY. That gave them more latitude for drama, but that didn't mean the characters were more interesting, or, more importantly, better than the TNG characters. IMO, VOY had three characters, Kes, Neelix, and Kim that were as bad as TNG's Wesley Crusher. I wouldn't say the VOY characters are signicantly better than the TNG ones at all.

And VOY didn't need SF when they could make their own torpedoes, shuttles, and repair all the damage to their ship, as Ronald Moore observed. Still another reason why VOY didn't differentiate itself appreciably from TNG.

and how does this not scream 80s to you?

I can't see your photos.


come on now, the hair, the clothes, the hair, the colors, the hair...it's so 80's

I can't see your photos, but, again, I don't see the big difference, especially since VOY directly followed TNG by only a few months and reused most of the TNG sets.

 

[rocketscientist]

try watching voyager again, they are quite different

I just finished rewatching seasons 3-7 last month and I've been rewatching TNG season 7 now. I don't see any appreciable difference. Same sets, same clothes, same type of writing (because VOY had a bunch of the same writers, including Berman, Braga, Pillar, and Taylor).

It's the same show all over again. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means it was unoriginal compared to ST, TNG, and DS9.

 

[Mrs Paris]

try watching voyager again, they are quite different

I just finished rewatching seasons 3-7 last month and I've been rewatching TNG season 7 now. I don't see any appreciable difference. Same sets, same clothes, same type of writing (because VOY had a bunch of the same writers, including Berman, Braga, Pillar, and Taylor).

It's the same show all over again. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means it was unoriginal compared to ST, TNG, and DS9.

totaly disagree, it was much different and much better

 

[rocketscientist]

Re-read what I wrote.

I said B5 looked 80's, I didn't say anything about TNG looking like that.

Also don't be so extreme. Having a style that's 80's doesn't mean Culture Club is going to come on playing on the set.

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

Well, my wife's a clothing designer (and a shrink) who's studying interior decorating, paints, and is in involved with the arts. She's the art expert, I'll ask her what she thinks.

 

[rocketscientist]

try watching voyager again, they are quite different

I just finished rewatching seasons 3-7 last month and I've been rewatching TNG season 7 now. I don't see any appreciable difference. Same sets, same clothes, same type of writing (because VOY had a bunch of the same writers, including Berman, Braga, Pillar, and Taylor).

It's the same show all over again. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means it was unoriginal compared to ST, TNG, and DS9.

totaly disagree, it was much different and much better

Well, I didn't think so. It was more of the same from Rick Berman and Brannon Braga imo. They essentially said as much in their interviews: they wanted to make sure that they held onto the original TNG fans (like me) with VOY so they had every incentive to make it as much like TNG as possible.

It's a real shame, because I think the concept had a lot more potential than what they actually did with it. They had some great characters and episodes, but the show itself broke no new ground in content or style imo.

 

[Mrs Paris]

I just finished rewatching seasons 3-7 last month and I've been rewatching TNG season 7 now. I don't see any appreciable difference. Same sets, same clothes, same type of writing (because VOY had a bunch of the same writers, including Berman, Braga, Pillar, and Taylor).

It's the same show all over again. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means it was unoriginal compared to ST, TNG, and DS9.

totaly disagree, it was much different and much better

Well, I didn't think so. It was more of the same from Rick Berman and Brannon Braga imo. They essentially said as much in their interviews: they wanted to make sure that they held onto the original TNG fans (like me) with VOY so they had every incentive to make it as much like TNG as possible.

It's a real shame, because I think the concept had a lot more potential than what they actually did with it. They had some great characters and episodes, but the show itself broke no new ground in content or style imo.

well that's your opinion

 

[exodus]

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

Well, my wife's a clothing designer (and a shrink) who's studying interior decorating, paints, and is in involved with the arts. She's the art expert, I'll ask her what she thinks.

A clothing designer and a shrink?

Wow, now that's a interesting combo.

I can just hear it now: "Leopard spots and stripes don't match, you must have a mental disorder. Step into my office."

 

[rocketscientist]

Re-read what I wrote.

I said B5 looked 80's, I didn't say anything about TNG looking like that.

Also don't be so extreme. Having a style that's 80's doesn't mean Culture Club is going to come on playing on the set.

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

What does not being an architect have to do with not seeing any differences in tone, dialogue, story content, etc.?

 

[exodus]

Sorry, I was referring to the discussion in general, not specifically to your comments. I shouldn't have quoted you.

But, I'm still not seeing anything different between VOY and TNG in terms of dialogue, content, tone, execution, etc. They seemed to be the same show.

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

What does not being an architect have to do with not seeing any differences in tone, dialogue, story content, etc.?

I don't know, you said it first. I was just joking with you about it.

 

[rocketscientist]

totaly disagree, it was much different and much better

Well, I didn't think so. It was more of the same from Rick Berman and Brannon Braga imo. They essentially said as much in their interviews: they wanted to make sure that they held onto the original TNG fans (like me) with VOY so they had every incentive to make it as much like TNG as possible.

It's a real shame, because I think the concept had a lot more potential than what they actually did with it. They had some great characters and episodes, but the show itself broke no new ground in content or style imo.

well that's your opinion

Yup, it's my opinion.

 

[rocketscientist]

That's because you're an engineer and not an architech.

Well, my wife's a clothing designer (and a shrink) who's studying interior decorating, paints, and is in involved with the arts. She's the art expert, I'll ask her what she thinks.

A clothing designer and a shrink?

Wow, now that's a interesting combo.

I can just hear it now: "Leopard spots and stripes don't match, you must have a mental disorder. Step into my office."

Yeah, she was designing bikinis when I met her.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Well, I didn't think so. It was more of the same from Rick Berman and Brannon Braga imo. They essentially said as much in their interviews: they wanted to make sure that they held onto the original TNG fans (like me) with VOY so they had every incentive to make it as much like TNG as possible.

It's a real shame, because I think the concept had a lot more potential than what they actually did with it. They had some great characters and episodes, but the show itself broke no new ground in content or style imo.

well that's your opinion

Yup, it's my opinion.

and I think you're wrong

 

[exodus]

Well, my wife's a clothing designer (and a shrink) who's studying interior decorating, paints, and is in involved with the arts. She's the art expert, I'll ask her what she thinks.

A clothing designer and a shrink?

Wow, now that's a interesting combo.

I can just hear it now: "Leopard spots and stripes don't match, you must have a mental disorder. Step into my office."

Yeah, she was designing bikinis when I met her.

Stop it, now you're talking dirty!


BTW, no way in Satan's Hell or God's Heaven are Neelix, Kes & Kim just as bad as Westly.

 

[Mrs Paris]

A clothing designer and a shrink?

Wow, now that's a interesting combo.

I can just hear it now: "Leopard spots and stripes don't match, you must have a mental disorder. Step into my office."

Yeah, she was designing bikinis when I met her.

Stop it, now you're talking dirty!


BTW, no way in Satan's Hell or God's Heaven are Neelix, Kes & Kim just as bad as Westly.

you're right! Kes was 10 times worse

 

[CorporalClegg]

Ouch.

You really don't like her.